SJF,

That's the most rational post I've ever seen you post. I really wish you used the same kind of analysis on the feminist articles, or not pass off the posters who do as misogynist.

'... the vast majority of trades are dominated by men –'

Yep. Though I really don't see young women lining up to be labourers. Gender differences are always evidence of inequality if women are under-represented. So when more men went to UNI, it was discrimination. Now more women go to UNI, it's due to men's choices.

'social pressure forces women to adopt the greater burden of child care and that men too often shirk their parental responsibilities '

That's quite offensive really. Imagine saying women shirk their financial responsibilities for their families. I'm sure you don't think single mothers who work shirk their parental responsibilities.

I'm not interested in the CTS debate between you and robert. All I see is adverts on TV with pushing and yelling being defined as domestic violence. I don't understand why this definition doesn't apply to women.

Directing the adverts at men only puts all the responsibility on men for violent disputes between couples. It also creates a distorted image of men as sole aggressors and ignores the complexity of the situation. It implies women in domestic disputes are at liberty to put their full force into the argument, and lose control of themselves emotionally and physically.

If a woman pushes, slaps, punches, kicks, scratches, throws glasses and knives at a man, he must use exactly the correct amount of force to defend himself without harming her in any way. To do this he must stay emotionally cool regardless of the turmoil inside, the anger, the adrenaline, the reflex to protect himself moderated to exactly the right measure to achieve the safety of both people.

All I want is to employ the same standards and expectations for men and women, and a lot of pain for both parties can be avoided.

SJF
I’d like to know how a feminist defines a male, and how a feminist defines a female.

It does seem that feminist want to define men as evil, and to support this, they say that men carry out domestic violence.

Possible the most disgusting display of discrimination and brainwashing ever seen on Australian TV was the “Australia Say No campaign”, where the ads were shown in increasing numbers as Father’s Day approached.

On some stations the ads were shown up to 4 times per hour just before Fathers Day, obviously in an attempt to turn children away from their fathers.

Next feminist will be saying that they believe in love, peace and equality.

Great post Usual Suspect. It pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter including your assessment of SJF.

“All I want is to employ the same standards and expectations for men and women, and a lot of pain for both parties can be avoided.”

Most men would agree, but the crux of this particular paradox is that most men also believe that punitive measures taken against women, disadvantage children. This allows some women to behave in ways that are unacceptable for men, and it similarly excuses feminists, at least to a degree, of being responsible for all anti-male propaganda. Some of it is clearly caused by a “patriarchy” that wants to protect women from themselves and other men (and at any cost), but in doing so it often fails to protect children for the very same reasons. Men unfortunately fall out of scope.

Usual Suspect and Seeker, thanks for your great posts.
Seeker it's especially welcome to have someone else acknowledging that part of the problem is patriarcal views.

"social pressure forces women to adopt the greater burden of child care " Those who see this as an issue please come and join the discussion on the "It is time to pay mums" thread http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7292 and argue the case for parenting leave rather than maternity leave. Thats an issue I've been advocating about for some time and continue to be amazed that that some who object to women being shouldered with the bulk of child care still advocate for systems which entrench that.

R0bert

When it comes to violence, surveys like the WSS only interviewed women, and secondly the only questions asked are if women have experienced violence.

Nobody asks women if they have perpetrated any acts of violence and people like SJF try to discount men who report violence.

So in reality the WSS only asked a quarter of the questions that are necessary.

The theory behind DV is that it is a cycle of violence, yet one off instances of violence get counted as well. So in reality the indicators are malleable depending on what the particular hypothesis is and if the indicators support the hypothesis. Indicators that don't support the hypothesis are ignored.

Robert,

"social pressure forces women to adopt the greater burden of child care "

There is an interesting bit of research into what is known as maternal gatekeeping. As far as I can find there has not been any follow up research. Wonder Why?

The research showed that up to, 30% of mothers regulate the fathers interaction with children.

Usual suspect, robert, seeker.

I think that some very good and effects rebuttals have been made and now SJF looses interest.