HRS
"Still waiting on loving feminists to comment about the love between a man and a woman."

That's a fat porky, HRS - and you know it. A scroll back through the OLO gender essays show many posts made by feminists that talk of the love they have for their husbands and partners. I myself have been a very happily married feminist for over twenty years and am proud to have shared so much of my life with such a wonderful man.

Audrey's love and empathy for her father shines through this article, every bit as much as her grief and longing for her mother.

JamesH
Your glib reference to Audrey as 'this bad apple' was plain disgusting, in light of the deeply personal article she writes here. I believe you lack the ability to credit feminists with having any humanity at all. That's your problem, not theirs.

Thank you for sharing your story with us Audrey.

I'm a feminist and know from many examples that love between a man and a woman is a wonderful thing. My parents, my grand-parents, both my grandmothers were early feminists and very modern in their thinking, so were their husbands, my siblings and sundry friends, not to mention my own love story with a thoroughly modern man who is also my best friend and the father of my children.

Happy HRS and JamesH?

James, it is OK to cry. It is only other men who 'feel uncomfortable'. And exactly why is that? Challenge that. Not only what you think others thought, but also why you thought that.

I've seen my husband cry when his beloved dog died after an horrific accident, but then he couldn't care less what some men, or women for that matter, think about that. Though years ago, it still brings tears to my when I think of it.

HRS, stop alluding to the boys, snail and slime things. You don't get it. Drop it, because you are beginning to embarrass yourself.

Feminists are not a movement to speak up for masculinity or define it. Heck, even amongst ourselves women disagree on exactly what femininity is and what it means to be a woman, which is the beauty of it.

We refuse to be stereotypical cartoon characters, but we will keep on challenging society at large and other feminists in particular on the merits and importance of our own particular stance. It keeps us alert and helps us to keep on refining and revising our own arguments and beliefs.

Men arguably need to do the same for themselves if they feel so challenged and victimised by the female gender in particular and society in general. But then again, maybe it is only a few men who feel victimised

SJF,
Death is a very tragic thing, and you are very lucky to live in a country where there is very little death.

I wonder who is responsible for that.

Yvoone,
"refuse to be stereotypical cartoon characters,".

That reminds me of something I have seen in Audrey Apple's blogsite.

And when boys read that type of thing, or hear it being said, they die a little death. Can all add up eventually, and I've seen it being carried out.

But you would probably know more about that than I would, being a feminist and all that.

HRS:- Get over the slime and snails obsession. Repetition doesn't enhance your argument.

James:- Cry or don't cry it's up to you, don't let gender stereotypes tell you not to, don't let feminists tell you that you have to express emotions in a similar way to women in order to avoid being labelled emotionaly retarded.

Yvonne:- A lot of your words betray you. 'Father of MY children'? Not 'our' children? modern man? Is a non-feminist man not modern?

These words exhibit a shaping by feminism we all exhibit.

As to your comments on men speaking up for masculinity, I would think a feminist who understands the plight of women in working in a business environment which has been framed (and hence supposedly deliberately biassed agains women) by male gender values, would in turn understand that gender politics and discourse has been framed by female values.

There is a lot more resitance to any positive change for men, or a so called men's movement, because women have gotten in first, and the baseline for gender equity discourse is skewed in favour of women.

The very term 'feminist' ensures an approach not toward equity, but assumes women to be in a weaker position, searching toward equity with men. This makes any claim a man might make for equity in any area invalid, as women are the ones in supposed need of equity. It's all too late as these are the terms of gender politics.

Under this supposition, men will never be heard or allowed seriously into the converstaion until society tips to such a level of inequity in favour of women that brought about the original feminist movement.

I have debated much about writing the following as it amazes me that no one else has picked up on it.

"with his wife's aggressive onset of Alzheimer's."

"With the disease progressing steadily, Fiona decides to enter a nursing home. After her admittance, she and Grant make love one last time"

What is ‘sexual consent’?
Identifying what 'sexual consent' entails will help us determine if an individual genuinely agreed to participate.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6823

It has been determined that someone must be of sufficent cognitive ability before they can give a valid consent to sexual intercourse.

My question is how can a woman with Alzheimer's be able to give valid consent for intercourse to take place?

"My mother once told me that raising a son was like having a mini love affair,"

Let's reverse genders and have a father saying that raising a daughter is like having a mini love affair. What would people then, think of that statement?

What is ‘sexual consent’? [with dementia]
When one partner gets dementia, consent is the most difficult thing to gauge. Suddenly, the person you've been having sex with consensually for fifty years can become unable to give consent. On what day does that happen? If you have the answer to that question, James, please don't condemn those who find it difficult. Tell them. Share it. This isn't a gender issue.

"My mother once told me that raising a son was like having a mini love affair" - "Let's reverse genders and have a father saying that raising a daughter is like having a mini love affair. What would people then, think of that statement?"

It's been a long time since I was little, but I hope my dad would still say that raising me was like a love affair. It was for me. And I know (and both my mum and my husband have agreed) that I've always looked for a guy just like my dad.

I admire my dad for a gazillion reasons. But one is that a lot of his contemporaries married women who were pretty, but slightly less clever, and slightly less sophisticated, and slightly less funny than they were. My dad just went for the prettiest, cleverest, funniest woman he could find - and *wasn't* intimidated if she was any more of those things than he. That was more than fifty years ago - and they're still married. I was a late baby - they kept trying till they finally got a girl. So I was the second woman my father fell in love with. If anyone finds that offensive, the can kiss my arse.