Unfortunately, were I to relate the old nursery rhyme 'girls are made of sugar and spice and all things nice, but boys are made of snips and snails of puppy dog tails' then of course, HRS would be adamant I've launched a nasty slur on males.

What's ironic is that it's a nursery rhyme that has been told to children for years.

They no more 'die a little inside' from a nursery rhyme like this, than they do when they hear about the wicked witch attempting to bake hansel and gretel, or the wolf in little red riding hood, or the evil stepmother in snow white.

Evidently, if HRS had his way, these tales would all be simply a collection of nursery rhyme characters sitting around saying: "gee, aren't men and boys fantastic!"

"They sure are! Oh boy! Lets have some sugar-free lollies and jump around the non-gender-aligned sandcastle, while we think of more positive things to say that won't risk offending anybody, because everything everywhere is just plain super! (except the evil feminists)"

Of course, they'd be boring, and parents who refused to allow their kids to hear nursery rhymes or fables under the banner of political correctness would be pampering them in the extreme.

Not to mention the fact that censoring these tales would be incredibly boring. No kids would want to listen to them, just like Audrey's site would be incredibly boring if every comment that could potentially cause offence so anybody (especially men) were to be taken down.

HRS, you say people die a little inside when they read that comment, I call bulldust on that.

You don't speak for me or any of the kids I've ever met, heck, I don't think you speak for anybody except a few men with an obvious issue with a few nutty fringe feminists.

Vanilla, how good to read your contributions. Audrey Apple you have started quite a thread here!

HRS, from reading your last post makes me think you do not have an issue with women and women voicing particular issues peculiar to femaleness, but what bothers you is the ism at the end of feminism.

I think it a little ironic that 'boys are made of slime and snails' causes you so much heartache. You would actually find that you have a lot in common with feminists who challenge prevailing attitudes and expectations of girls and women in society. That's how feminism came about in the first place.

There is an idea going about that 'men no longer know how to behave' are afraid to say the wrong thing and cowed by 'political correctnes. I have many men in my life. Personal-family and friends, and professional. I have not met a single man who could fall in this category. Where are they?

Just because a man is challenged because he is rude and denigrating what does this have to do with feminism?

The media is not run by feminists, but by male proprietors. The government is not run by feminists, but male politicians. The judiciary is not run by feminists, but by male judges.

It is pure intellectual laziness to blame feminism for all perceived injustices in our society. Take responsibility. Women have had to fight and argue that they are capable of taking responsibility for themselves. If all human beings of both genders take responsibility and realize that equality does not mean sameness, but are the two halves of the human race what a wonderful world we would have.

Men need to speak out about their own issues. They need to challenge societal perceptions, and their own, of masculinity. Yes, by all means, challenge women who have particular dogmatic views of what a 'man' is, but also what other men have to say. I would say that women are more accepting of a broad interpretation of masculinity than men are.

On at the MCA is an exhibition by feminist artist Julie Rrap. Julie uses her naked body as both object and subject. There are 100's of photographs of her naked body. Eroticism is in the eye of the beholder I'm sure, but her various intents neuter (usually) any eroticism, at the same time as they address gender and sexuality.

(Apart from her natural beauty) there is very little attempt to present women as objects of beauty. The exception is in the work "Conception", which portrays a more conventional and aesthetic image. Elsewhere she presents the female body as a challenge to norms or caught in a snapshot of existence, beyond gender politics.

Curiously, the eroticism in the exhibition was to be found in the fibreglass and bronze figures with imprints of her various poses left behind. Let the imagination run free!

What a strange weekend I've had- Saturday arvo at the Sefton Playhouse clip joint with the lads, and Sunday at the MCA falling in love with the sexy feminist artist Julie Rrap.

yvonne: "I have not met a single man who could fall in this category. Where are they?"

They are the men who grew up in a society of close minded sexist rules. Their views are so ingrained they have difficulty adapting to the more liberal society as they are unable to understand it, even though they may accept it. In social situations they are used to following simple rules (men do this, women do that) which no longer apply and there are no clear guidelines for them to follow.

They feel like they should say 'good day, ma'am' and open the door, but are unsure if that would be patronizing or not. Now some women may appreciate the gesture and some might not, so they play it safe and don't act. But then there's so many times where this is the case as so many things can cause offense, which leads to so many times where they must play it safe and not act. And then there are the times where even not to act could cause offense and they become truly lost as to what they should do.

They become victims of the process of (a justified) change because they are trying so hard to do the right thing. Their whole gender identity is one based around respecting women, which they did through a structure of social normalities. By removing these normalities, you're removing their ability to act in accordance with their identity.

"It is pure intellectual laziness to blame feminism for all perceived injustices in our society."

It's also presumptuous to assume that feminism is responsible for none of the injustices in our society.

"realize that equality does not mean sameness"

It also does not mean polarized adversity.

re: slime and snails.

If we put 'sexist' nursery rhymes told to kids at one end of the scale and 'sexist' imagery in a magazine at the other, at what point does the sexism become acceptable?

A critique of Audreys article.

In her article she firstly describes the male staff at ZOO mag, 'cheeky monkeys' later progressing to 'greasy neanderthals'.

So she has already applied labels to men.

She protests at the way ZOO mag has stereotyped herself(a feminist) and other women, yet in her attack on the staff at ZOO, she herself stereotypes men in general. She criticises ZOO for sexualising women, yet in her very article she herself hypersexualises relationships between the genders and in the process degrades men and heterosexuality in an angry tirade.

Unfortunately there are some women who are conceited enough to think that every man they meet wants to b*nk them and unfortunately some feminists think that heterosexual women are sleeping with the enemy. On onehand it is OK to meet women's needs, yet it is not OK to fulfill mens needs.

"worse, expect to be told that your very valid objections are indicative of a complete lack of humor"

However when HRS objected to Audrey having 'Boys are made of slime and snails." on her website. Audrey is having none of it, even though other nursery ryhmes have been changed for the purposes of political correctness, just in case they offend someone.

It is Audreys right to object to something she finds offensive, just as it is equally HRS's right to object to something he finds offensive.

But to apply one standard in one instance and then object to when that same principle is applied in another equally valid instance, is hypocrisy.

She then categorizes men who criticise feminism as ignorant, lazy and out to demonize feminists.

Men are often criticised for being uncommuncative, and any discussion must be conducted in feminist approved ways. So it not surprising that there are men who do not fall over in some sort of religous rapture at the idea of feminism.

Incredibly some of the best critics of feminism are women.

As a masculist with sensible shoes, I strongly object to the lesbian label. Almost equally abhorrent, I find the idea that Zoo has any real p0rn cred. This seems just yet another swipe at us poor blokes who like women as they were designed.

In intoxicating blog language, Germaine’s very public pre-pubescent boy fantasies don’t really count as any feminist perversion. Of course, they don’t.