The Forum > Article Comments > Hard to believe, but apparently even feminists can be sexy … > Comments
Hard to believe, but apparently even feminists can be sexy … : Comments
By Audrey Apple, published 3/1/2008'Zoo' magazine’s latest stunt is designed not to, as it argues, appease critics but to poke fun at women who disagree with their childish behaviour.
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Posted by JamesH, Monday, 21 January 2008 7:57:55 AM
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Posted by CJ Morgan
'others of his misogynist ilk' Just where has HRS expressed any hatred of women. I'm so sick of any critique of feminism being responded to like this. You all accuse HRS of blindly hating all feminists, but are you any better when you drag out the old faithful 'mysoginist' to anyone who dares to question feminism? It's exactly this type of attitude that has created creatures such as HRS. Posted by Whitty, Monday, 21 January 2008 10:17:08 AM
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On the surface HRS's point about the 'snips and snails' seems trivial and childish and all that, but I can see a validity to it, maybe different than what HRS is trying to articulate.
That whole idea programmed into us from childhood that men are somehow dirty and girls are 'made of all things nice' is a prevailing attitude that is carried on in society. I can see a valid objection to the attitudes behind such a thing. Especially when you read feminist critiques of bedtime stories such as snow white or little red riding hood. How is HRS being petty, when all feminist arguments of the sort are treated so seriously. I could even imagine a feminist twisting HRS's beefs about this title to say the very same title is actually a mysoginist tool of the patriachy, where women aren't being allowed to get their hands dirty, show aggression, some repression of female power or sexuality. I'm sure a feminist could work some angle for me to illistrate my point Posted by Whitty, Monday, 21 January 2008 10:27:51 AM
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Dear Audrey Apple,
I think you should calm down, do some yoga exercises, and don’t go getting yourself all upset. So far as a deal is concerned: - A link to a medical encyclopaedia has been provided previously, and there is no evidence that boys are made of slime and snails in that medical encyclopaedia, or in any other encyclopaedia that I am aware of. But you still want to state that boys are made of slime and snails on your blogsite. So, I think that you should state quite clearly on every page of your blogsite, that you are a university trained journalist and a feminist, and you also have no regard for any science, accuracy or reliability in anything you write. I think that deal would be justified. PS. If you read Germaine Greer, I also think you should not go contacting any boys, or girls (and I am quite serious about that). Posted by HRS, Monday, 21 January 2008 10:29:57 AM
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James. Thanks for the reading tips — exactly what I wanted. I appreciate the bother you went to. I’ve looked into some; some I knew, as my husband writes about men’s issues. (Sorry, I’m not going to tell you who he is.)
“Some women have been brave enough to challange many of the assumptions of perhaps the more radical feminists.” It’s true that I have a particularly impressive and brave lot of mates, but I can’t think of one close friend I have — male or female — who isn’t brave enough to challenge radical feminists. Surely it would be impossible to have a creative and rigorous intellectual life without challenging all one’s beliefs? “Surprisingly men do need to shown that they are appreciated and feel valued.” They have been, in this thread: Yvonne: “I hope this assures you that my men are independent and confident men. I do have to admit they have good male role models in their lives and for some boys that can be a real problem. Females cannot fulfill that role.” Botheration: “That's how I think of men - they're gorgeous, but there's more to them than that… I agree we've made some men feel guilty about liking looking at chicks. We need to fix that…” Audrey: “I know a great many men who are intelligent, funny, supportive, sensitive and generally all round ace human beings.” As for me, I have strong relationships with strong men, who challenge me all the time. My dad, my brothes and my wonderful husband, particularly — none of whom I’d have a rat’s chance of lording it over. I appreciate and value them, and if they don’t notice that then I’ll try harder. But seriously, read over the thread. Notice: * the positive things women post about men * any positive thing a man has posted about a woman (excluding TRTL and CJ, of course — one of you guys) * the amount of posts written by “feminists” compared to those written by “anti-feminists” * HRS’s comments CONT... Posted by Vanilla, Monday, 21 January 2008 12:44:56 PM
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Vanilla,
I haven’t been negative of women. I’ve said “Save the males and females (from themselves and from feminists)”. I could add capitalists, Marxist, socialists or any other group or cult that wants to call itself an “ist”. I feel very luck to live in a country where I don’t have to call myself an “ist” , or say that I believe in an “ism”, because in some countries the people do. However I am totally and completely convinced (like 100,000%) that if feminist took control of this country, then everyone in it would be required to call themselves an “ist”, and believe in an “ism”. And most likely they would be required to recite nursery rhymes to children that describe boys as being made of slime and snails. Also read the interview of Dorris Lessing, who feminist thought of as being a feminist heroine, but not any more. Find out why she rejected the “ism” of feminism. http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s390537.htm In the case of Germaine (look-at-me) Greer, even the male she put on the front cover of her book did not think she was sexy. He wanted the photo removed., but she wouldn’t, probably because she was so concerned about the rights of boys. Reminds me of a certain blog writer I know. Posted by HRS, Monday, 21 January 2008 4:00:41 PM
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Vanilla, Sunday, 20 January 2008 12:15:10 PM
Vanilla,
Yes women can help, there are many female authors who's work I have read and who provide useful insights, Daphne Patai, Melanie Phillips, Christine Stobla, Eeva Sodhi, etc.
Eeva Sodhi perhaps provide one of the most useful, which was something to do with the gems(truth) are usually restricted to a line or two, buried in the detail.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050310180627/www.nojustice.info/Media/WhyMenFail.htm
Recently Alan Howe of the Heraldsun wrote an article basically condemming fathers. It was however pointed out that what he did was take the best possible examples of women providing positive parenting and then compared that to the worst examples of where fathers have hurt children. So the technique is to take the best possible examples of the cause you support and then use the worst possible examples of eg male behaviour to support your cause. Even when the worst male behaviour is restricted to a very small number, it is easy to extropulate that to apply, if not to all men, the majority.
Have a browse around menshealthaustralia.net
Some women have been brave enough to challange many of the assumptions of perhaps the more radical feminists. Some of my female friends(surprise) admit that they feel sorry for us blokes and realise how difficult it is for some of us.
"Men teetering on the eggshell of political correctness are clueless about how to get it right, how to win. The truth is some women aren't prepared to let them. Women are better at putting people and relationships back together again. If it were Humpty, they'd assist. It's not. It's men." Toby.
Surprisingly men do need to shown that they are appreciated and feel valued.