TRTL,

the WSS conducted by the ABS included behaviours like stalking, unwelcome sexual advances, shouting, threats,excetra.

If your criteria for DV is injury needing medical attention, then the incidence of DV would be more like 1 in 10,000 or perhaps even 1 in 100,000.

One thing which is interesting about the police and the Ambos, (who I do have contact with) is that they will attend mutiple incidences at the same residences.

Unfortunately statistics do not destinguish these multiple episodes, for example if 10 women ring and complain about DV 10 times. Is it 10 episodes or 100?

Hi HRS,

Here’s a list of women who support fathers’ rights: http://www.glennsacks.com/women_who_have.htm

Here’s Nobel laureate and feminist Doris Lessing encouraging feminists to support men: http://books.guardian.co.uk/edinburghbookfestival2001/story/0,1061,536568,00.html

Another feminist for dads at Reason magazine: http://www.reason.com/news/show/118168.html

Also, for the Australian perspective, the Women’s Electoral Lobby (arguably the foremost feminist group in Australia) “supports the International Labour Organisation Convention No. 156: Equal Opportunities and Equal Treatment for Men and Women Workers: Workers with Family Responsibilities, which advocates work practices which accept that *both men and women* have family responsibilities and urges the Government to ensure its implementation in full.”

Sorry you didn’t like my first choices. However, you asked for feminists saying positive things about men. You got the first article. “I love men, and I do think guys have been treated unfairly” comes from the the second. And I chose the third because it asserted that everyone, “male and female alike, [should] be seen as necessary and valuable for the individual abilities and characteristics we bring to the table.”

So, using your original criteria, I actually got three out of three. The fourth was an optional extra – I just thought you might be intersted in a male feminist. I’m done googling, but feel free to continue the search if you’re keen to find futher feminist support.

Sam, I didn’t meet any men who were brutally beaten up by their wives last week, or I would have cited it as another example. I’m distressed you’ve such a dim view of my honesty – I just want to contribute to this debate, because it interests me. I have an ex-boyfriend who’d been physically abused by a previous girlfriend so I know that it happens. I believe we should seek to resolve all conflict in rational and non-violent ways, regardless of gender.

Best of luck to both of you.

Oh, and I know this ruins the joke, but I’m a pedant.

ilk noun 1. family, class, or kind

Botheration,
You have basically presented some women who are supporting men, but they don’t call themselves feminist.

Dorris Lessing is not a feminist. She rejected feminism many years ago. (eg “What a lot of bitches have been created by the women's movement. It really is frightening” http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s390537.htm)

Glen Sacks has never called himself a feminist, and on his list is an Australian woman (Sue Price), who has been a very harsh critic of feminists, and has never once called herself a feminist.

I don’t think Cathy Young has ever called herself a feminist either.

There is minimal evidence of feminists supporting men, but there is every bit of evidence that they carry out some of the highest levels of discrimination, prejudiced and bigotry, carry out some of the worst examples of advocacy research, and present enormous amounts of misinformation, and an example of this is the 1 in 3.

Hi HRS,

I’m afraid that’s not all correct.

Firstly, Doris Lessing has had a long and complicated relationship with the feminist movement. She is one of its harshest critics (which is why I searched for an article by her) but she’s also a founder of the moment. Read The Golden Notebook; read The Good Terrorist. Lessing won the Nobel prize because, in the words of the academy, "The burgeoning feminist movement saw [the Golden Notebook] as a pioneering work, and it belongs to the handful of books that informed the 20th-century view of the male-female relationship."

Secondly, Cathy Young most certainly calls herself a feminist (a “dissendent feminist”, to be precise) and has written a book called Ceasefire: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality. She’s been a popular feminist columnist in Reason. Not every feminist agrees with her – but it's an intellectually independent movement and can cope with differing views.

You’re right that the list I posted is of women rather than feminists. Note that I never claimed otherwise. However, before I posted I googled some random names on the list and was satisfied that quite a few identified as feminists. I am absolutely NOT doing more research for you, but just google a few names and you’ll see what I mean. You can start with the first one.

So, I’ve now found you five feminists sticking up for men, and one list that includes many more. And, yet, my money’s on the fact that your next post will refer to the deceptive nature of feminists. Am I right, or am I right?

Given I’ve done all this research for you, will you tell me something? Where does your attitude to feminists come from? What’s happened in your life to create this anger? None of that silly sarcasm – may I have an honest response?

botheration wrote 'I’m distressed you’ve such a dim view of my honesty'...

er...honesty was not the focus but unbalanced view of the issue, here its abuse...and your post was man bashing women...and did you ask her why the violent altercation, was she drunk...did she give him lacerations, was she provoking him when he was drunk etc...all this would make interesting discusssion in debate such as this but from your post all you seemed to have done is man always bad. women innocent naive and good, and 'encouraged her to leave him'...for all you know he may be at the local hospital with a knife in the back from her...right...

fundamental requirement to asses all human behaviour is to understand the circumstances at time first, then ask what would a reasonable 'person' do...note not female/male...then what did the people in the situation acutally do...to give a reasonable chance of understanding the incident you refer to...and since you appear to want to be a reasonable person i think you would agree with this...

so the basic point is talk from perspective as a 'person'...not from 'group' as in feminist...because the group agenda becomes dominant and individuals start toeing the line...and why the anger against feminist you asked hrs...let me answer...go spend a day at the family court or domestic violence super courts...the bias towards women/mothers so in your face...and corruption to process like evidence and presumed innocent...that its hard not to walk out without some justified anger...the unbalanced self interest of women/mothers taking advantage of above said 'horribly' affecting men and their children is open and apparent...its life long...and harmed numbers are rapidly building...

if i may offer an advice to someone who wants to be part of a debate like you want to...look at the plus/minus from perspectives(ie rights/interests) of all involved to issue...and comment from this stage will most likely be accepted with least negative responses...

Sam

HRS

'I have looked through a number of dictionaries for the definition of a term you used to describe a male politician, to find it defined as being “vulgar” in every dictionary.

But everyone knows that women are never abusive, and you would be an example of that, made even more interesting by the fact that you were once a teacher.'

You are confusing me with CJ Morgan. I'm the teacher, and the one that you have referred to as using a term that is 'vulgar'.

You really need to expand your repertoire.