HRS - in response:

You say "Women are being trained to think negatively of both men and boys."

This is at the core of our dispute, I think. I reject this statement - what would be more accurate, is that a few fringe feminists have this agenda, and generalise all men as being bad or violent.
Their main crime, is to tar all men with the same brush.

You've just committed exactly the same error. Believe it or not, most women know and like at least some men.

What's more, you're attempting to deny reality to fit your view.

What I really object to, is that you're attempting to play down the numbers and possibility severity of crimes committed by men. This distortion is even worse than that committed by the fringe feminists.

Acknowledging that more men are violent then women is just accepting the truth. Denying this is pushing an agenda.

Given your claims are more outlandish than mine I'd have thought the statistics onus was on you, but nevertheless, here you are: this is from BOCSAR

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/cjb89.doc/$file/cjb89.doc

Scroll to page nine:

"As can be seen from Figure 8, the majority of victims of domestic assault were female (71.1%) and the majority of offenders were male (80.4%). This finding is to be expected given that a large proportion of victims of domestic violence are women who are abused by their male partners (Stubbs & Powell 1989; Dobash & Dobash 2004). It is noteworthy, nonetheless, that 28.9 per cent of victims of domestic assault recorded by police are male."

Of course, you can go on to the other sections, and find the bits by age (which are proportional, not overall) or find the bits where men are assaulted too. Yes, it happens.

But don't ever try to pretend this assault isn't going on and isn't widespread and don't try to pretend women are just as guilty.

As for black eyes, because you're not seeing them doesn't mean they're not there.
Women wear makeup to cover these things and many become reclusive after being beaten.

Romany, sorry about the delay. I've been focussing my posting efforts elsewhere recently. Thanks for the idea's. I'll keep them in mind if the opportunity arises. Currently little child free/work free time to get to the big libraries but that will change over the next few years.

One of the most difficult parts of making sense of what info is available is trying to come to grips with the motivations and methods of the researchers. Advocacy research seems so common.

The other is in trying to see the breakup of the data into the relevant groupings and then making sense of cause and effect.

Cheers
R0bert

Yep, I know what you mean. Both as a Free Lance and as an academic, a large proportion of my adult life has been - and still is of course - taken up by research.

However, what I found great as the kids got older was that it was something I could share with them. A large part of research being gathered at source (not just libraries, I mean, but everywhere from sheltered workshops to so-called celeb. interviews)they would often come along with me and their input proved invaluable at times.

As for them, although more traditional parents often slagged me off, I now hear my kids telling their mates how great it was and how much they learned about life and all sorts of issues. Not to mention the fact that they now also do exhaustive research on so many aspects of their lives as well!! But yeah - it ain't easy.

The first paper, by Daniel Whittaker and colleagues, appeared in the May, 2007 issue of American Journal of Public Health and reports on findings from the 2001 National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health with a sample of more than 11,000 young adults between the ages of 18 and 28. Among those findings: (1) 70.7% of nonreciprocal physical violence was perpetrated by females, and (2) in reciprocally-violent relationships, men incurred the majority of the physical injuries. Overall, women incurred more physical injuries, but the difference was quite small. You can find an abstract and a review of this paper at www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/5/941.

The study involved an analysis of data originally obtained through the National Violence Against Women Survey in the mid-90's. Felson and Outlaw looked at the 10,000 respondents (out of the total sample of 16,000) who were currently married, and found that adult women are just as controlling and jealous towards their male partners as the other way around. They also found that the relationship between use of control and jealousy and physical violence existed equally for both male and female respondents, and that "intimate terrorists" can be either male or female. Controlling and jealous behaviors were defined as follows:

"It should be pointed out that the National Violence Against Women Survey was designed, conducted and analyzed by feminist researchers, whose intentions from start to finish were to make the case that violence against female intimate partners is a serious social problem, and one that is much more serious than violence against male intimate partners. This, I believe, lends quite a bit of added credibility to Felson's findings."

http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=1417#more-1417

Turnrightthenleft,the regurgitator.

I’m wondering if you have any capability of thinking for yourself. Nearly everything in your posts I have already read elsewhere, and you appear to be regurgitating what someone else has told to you.

The idea that I have never seen a woman with a black eye is because they wear makeup appears to be one such regurgitated or brainwashed response, as I have heard it said elsewhere also. But where I live, it is too hot to wear makeup.

You still have not given the actual % of the men who are physically violent or sexually abusive.

In terms of child sexual abuse, 0.04% of men in QLD carried out child sexual abuse last year, where the sexual abuse was actually verified.

Yet we are told that 1 in 3 girls are being sexually abused. The figures don’t correlate, so the figure of 1 in 3 must be made up by one of those mysterious but not so rare “radical feminists”.

The so called victim of domestic violence is normally regarded as the person who is most injured, and that person is normally the woman. But as shown by the research carried out by the US, where the domestic violence is not mutual, women were the perpetrators 70% of the time, while men caused more injuries.

Its all about money, all knowing but regurgitating Turnrightthenleft, and also about not taking responsibility.

Stereotype males as being abusers, and it makes it easier for women to get more and more money from men, and it also makes it easier for women to take minimal responsibility for anything they do.

You asked for statistics, and I got them.

As I've said, you're never ever going to get statistics on such a diffuse idea as of who is 'violent.'
You'd need to reach consensus on what a violent person is (just one attack? How severe? slapping? Poking?) and of course, there would be many people attempting to discredit such a finding anyway.

As for regurgitation, did you stop to think that perhaps the reason why you hear that claim for so many quarters is because it's the right one? That's not 'regurgitation' that's a chorus of assent. Think for a moment what it would be like to be a woman wandering around with a black eye, and what people would assume.
Aside from that fact, black eyes aren't even all than an effective measure of domestic violence - did it occur to you that men seeking to avoid scrutiny for domestic violence would apply violence to parts of the body less likely to be seen in public?

You're the one making wild claims based solely on the supposition that because you see black eyes they're not really there - seeing as your claims fall further outside the well accepted orthodoxy, I challenge you to be the one to back them up.

I've agreed the 1 in 3 figure sounds exaggerated. What I dispute is your attempt to play down the situation even further by denying violence against women is widespread, and pretending women are just as bad.

Talk to police, nurses, ambos and social workers. I've spoken to many people across these professions, but I guess when I state their overwhelming consensus I'm just 'regurgitating.' How bout you find me comments from these people that back your view huh? I can sure as hell find some that back mine.

As for the studies cited by you and JamesH I'd be interested in receiving more information on the definition of violence. As more injuries are still being caused by men despite your claims more women are doing so, indicates that the 'violence' being committed by these women isn't nearly as severe.