HRS, I'm seeing various comparisons from you, but not many direct ones.

i.e. Yes, more bashed men present to hospital than women. But not more men bashed by women, than women bashed by men.

Yes, more neglect abuse occurs than sexual abuse, and women are more likely to neglect than sexually abuse. But this is two kinds of abuse.

I don't see you mentioning that more men are likely to be sexual abusers. Where's the direct comparison between men and women here?

In relation to neglect, where's the direct comparison between the overall number of single mothers and the overall number of single fathers and neglect figures?

These skewed comparisons do more to distort than enlighten. As I've said before, there's legitimate reasons to argue on behalf of a better image for men, but the way you're going about it isn't how it should be done, nor is it about trying to deny that men, on average, are more violent than women.

Thanks TRTL, you've nicely summed up the issues.

HRS, I really have nothing further to add to my previous comments. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Turnrightthenleft.
There are men who are violent, but I would be interested to know what % of men are violent.

If you said that because some Muslims are terrorists, then all Muslims are terrorists, then this would be discrimination.

If you said that because some men are violent, then all men are violent, then I would have to regard this as being discrimination also.

I have never seen a woman with a black eye, and the only time I have been injured by a male was when they accidentally stood on my finger, so I would be interested to know what % of men are physically violent.

And no, I’m not interested in claims of abuse, but in verifiable evidence. The Nazis claimed that Jews were violent and were bad for society, but this was never supported by much verifiable evidence.

An extremely significant contribuiting factor in male violence is drug and alcohol use and abuse. Another significant factor is what is known as 'acquired brain injury' in other words a person with ABI may have a personality change ie from being passive to aggressive.

HRS you raise a very significant point.

<i>"She suggests that mothers' physical violence toward children, particularly male children, plays a key part in perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

Mills does not deny (and neither does anyone else) that male violence toward women is more likely to result in physical injuries than the reverse, and that women in abusive relationships are more likely than men to be in danger. But she argues that this is no reason to disregard female violence, which needs to be acknowledged not only out of fairness to male victims but out of concern for female victims as well: A woman who starts a physical confrontation with her male partner may well find herself severely battered. To understand and prevent male violence, Mills concludes, we must understand female violence as well, whether it's physical assault or psychological aggression."</i>

Differences in Frequency of Violence and Reported Injury Between Relationships
http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/5/941

Results. Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/20/new-study-punctures-feminist-domestic-violence-myths-about-control-and-jealousy/

"The study involved an analysis of data originally obtained through the National Violence Against Women Survey in the mid-90's. Felson and Outlaw looked at the 10,000 respondents (out of the total sample of 16,000) who were currently married, and found that adult women are just as controlling and jealous towards their male partners as the other way around.

"They also found that the relationship between use of control and jealousy and physical violence existed equally for both male and female respondents, and that 'intimate terrorists' can be either male or female....

HRS - that's shifting the ball. I've never said all men are violent. Nobody is parrotting the line.
I'm a man. I'm not the least bit violent.

Most men aren't violent. I'm just saying that more men are violent when directly compared to women.

That's a fact. Denying it gets us nowhere, nor does playing with indirect statistics. All you can do is highlight situation where unfair incidents have occurred, or legislation isn't equal, and go from there.

To do this however, you need to acknowledge the realities of the situation. I feel no guilt for what other men do - I had nothing to do with it. But I'm willing to condemn them.

Same for muslim terrorists. I don't condemn muslims nor do I condemn men in broad strokes. But I'll gladly condemn muslim terrorists or violent men.

There'll never be any overall statistics on how many men 'are violent.' It's not a cut and dry thing. You can only look at statistics on assault or other crimes, and to do that just go to BOCSAR or the Qld police site. The statistics are quite clear.

As for women with black eyes, then consider yourself fortunate. I've known a number of people who work with the police and busy hospitals.
One police station had more than half its resources tied up in dealing with domestic violence. A flatmate who was a nurse saw black eyes reasonably frequently.

These things happen and it's men doing most of them. Refusing to acknowledge this doesn't help anyone.

Turnrightthenleft
You haven’t given any % figures, just some statements that women turn up at hospitals with black eyes. That could be true, or it could not be true.

If men in jail are anything to go by, then men in prison represent 0.15% of men in Australia,.but the majority are not there for violent crimes, but more often they are there because of drug related crimes. There is also belief that prisons are being used as mental hospitals.

I have seen many thousands of women, but none with a black eye. But I can’t remember the last time I ever heard a woman say something positive about men, or about boys for that matter.

Women are being trained to think negatively of both men and boys.