Aren't we talking about the decendents fo Esau and Isaac? In other words brother and sister still murdering each other over land and ruining life for everyone else on the planet into the bargain?

Do these people realise they a re killing their own families?

The supremacy game is never good - it leads to so much trouble. Only developing the ability to share resources gives people the ability to put life before inanimate possessions. This is the lesson God wishes people to learn.

K£vin, you're not allowed to suggest that!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/genes/article/0,2763,605806,00.html

"Journal axes gene research on Jews and Palestinians

A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.

Academics who have already received copies of Human Immunology have been urged to rip out the offending pages and throw them away."

Dr. Karmi's presentation last night was very good. She basically explained why a two-state solution is no longer viable. There was about 1 hour for the presentation and the same again for questions.

I noticed there were a handful of young pro-Israeli people who asked a couple of obvious - and I must say fairly unsophisticated - questions (e.g., "But what about suicide bombers?", "Why didn't Arafat sign the 2000 Camp David Summit"). Oddly enough they were scattered throughout the lecture theatre during the presentation, but were all talking together on the tram home.

Lev,

I had a look at the BBC article you supplied (I generally don’t have a lot of time for the BBC as they are one of the most left wing media institutions in the western world). It seems the decision made by the electoral commission was close, 22-19 and the electoral commission is made up of members of the Knesset. The BBC article makes NO mention of requiring support for the occupation. Ami Bishara was banned because he had made public comments supporting the Palestinian resistance. I think Aussies would have a hard time understanding why we should allow some one to stand for our parliament who supported resistance to our troops and gov’t.

But this is a political decision and the electorate will hold the gov’t responsible if they feel they have overstepped their remit. This is totally a secular brand of Zionism. Religious leaders were not involved in this process at all.;

I agree with the theme of your post, Israel could probably do better. The reason I take issue with your posts is that there are many loony lefters out there who think Israel is as bad, or worse, than Hamas/PLO, North Korea, Iran, China, Burma, Sudan and Zimbabwe. To suggest such is to really live in a parallel reality. The continued criticism of Israel certainly gives the less knowledgeable leftists the idea that Israel is the worst offender.

If any of our so called modern western liberal democracies found themselves in Israel’s position, surrounded by enemies and constantly under attack I don’t believe they could maintain their democratic nature very long.

There are two sets of victims and two perpetrators in the Arab Israeli conflict. Those who criticize Israel whilst ignoring Hamas or Hezbollah (who are both less democratic and more racist) are aggravating the loss of perspective which seems to plague the left when it comes to this conflict

Lev,

You appear to have taken the spin that Antonia Arnaiz-Villena’s paper was pulled because Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are genetically almost identical. Why shouldn’t they be?

Scientists have known for a long time that genetic tests using mtDNA and Y-DNA show that European Jews (let alone ME Jews), have a significant Eastern Mediterranean element - Y-DNA haplogroups J and E, typical of the Middle East, which manifests itself in close relationship with Kurdish, Armenian, Palestinian Arab, Lebanese, Syrian, and Anatolian Turkish peoples. This knowledge has been widely known and accepted. Nothing new here ...

Incidentally, mtDNA travels mother to daughter, and due to its relatively slow mutation rate scientists believe they can potentially trace female descent some 20,000 years back - well before the Israelites, Hebrews, Habiru/Hapiru whatever ...

Regarding Antonia Arnaiz-Villena’s paper: “Being Jewish Doesn’t Mean You’re Different”

Screams about Arnaiz-Villena’s paper have been heard as far afield as: Al-Ahram weekly on-line, Jerusalem Post, The Chronicle, in Nature, in newspapers: The Observer, etc. Arnaiz-Villena himself has been inundated with emails.

M. Lapelerie, Architecture et Fonction des Macromolécules Biologiques, Université de Provence Université de la Méditerranée submitted a paper to Yale University regarding the reasons why Arnaiz-Villena’s (along with other scientists’) paper was pulled.

Whilst Antonio Arnaiz-Villena committed no scientific misconduct in his paper, he ventured into historical and political areas of which he had no expertise whatsoever. He made some accurate statements, but also some very innacurate - such as the origins of the first Israeli-Arab War; then there were pieces taken out of context, or misunderstood - or expressions poorly chosen, as Arnaiz-Villena himself admits

Paul,

Supporting the resistance means opposing the occupation. Unlike in Israel, Australia allow candidates who support getting our troops out of Iraq and we also allow candidates who argue it is legitimate for the Iraqi's to resist our criminal occupation of their land.

The particular instance is largely secular in nature, however if you check the Knesset law (specifically the 1985 ammendments) on the matter you will discover that all candidates must accept that the proposition that Israel is a Jewish state. That is not a secular matter.

Israel, as Dr. Karmi pointed out last night, would not have enemies if it according equal rights to people of different religions, if it ended the occupation of West Bank and Gaza - as required under international law and countless UN resolutions, and if it allowed a right of return for the Palestinian people.

The tragedy is that certain Israelis will never agree to those conditions, so fundamentalist in their thinking that they believe they have rights from the Brook of the Nile to the Euphrates, the land of the Hittites (southern Turkey!) etc etc

And what do you think the result of this project will be? It will be endless war and violence. It simply will not end until Palestine ceases to be a special State for any religion.

Danielle,

Thank you for the science lesson in subject I am already quite familiar with. I suggest you reread the Guardian article. Especially the last paragraphs. Really, what is the difference?

Lev

Bishara's support for the armed resistance is not the same as merely opposing the occupation.

Yes we have politicians who do not support our ongoing war in Iraq. I don’t know of any who support attacks on our troops. If you know of one I would like to know it.

You said “all candidates must accept that the proposition that Israel is a Jewish state.”

This is not a religious requirement. Many Israelis see the Jews as a people bound by a common history and culture and are not religious in the least.

When the Islamic states of the Middle East become multiculturally sensitive and give over to liberal democracy and the rule of law we can talk about Jews, Christians and Muslims living together peacefully. In the meantime trying to force Israelis into a single state with Palestinians, who will dominate any gov’t which is democratically elected is an attempt to destroy Israel by stealth.

Why stop at Palestine, why should we have any countries? Why shouldn’t we just have one world gov’t? That’s the road your logic for a single state in Palestine takes you down.

The only reason you will find any Palestinians supporting the idea of a one state solution is because it means that the Palestinian Authority will run the state. If they thought they might be governed by Jews they would never agree. A one state solution is Hamas’ plan.

You, of course, would be aware of the large number of UN resolutions Hamas, Fatah and the PA are in breach of. Perhaps if they were to rectify that it might also go a long way towards solving the conflict.

I agree there are Jews who are rigid in their belief that all of Palestine is theirs. But the polling figures consistently show that that the majority of Israelis accept there must be a land-for-peace settlement.

You would also be aware of Hamas charter which states that Palestine is an Islamic Waqf throughout all generations which is indivisible and can never be negotiated away.