I have a few questions for right wing conservative christians.

Is it a sin in their religion to take our country to war based on falsified evidence where

- 10's perhaps 100's of thousands of innocent Iraqi's are killed (What would Jesus say on this?)
- nearly 4000 innocent USA troups have been killed (What would Jesus say on this?)
- where the Weapons of Mass destruction never were there What would Jesus say on this?)

Then the second question is... and at what stage do they change their vote when this is proven to be true? (What would Jesus say on this?)

If a christian voted for a leader who had done this to their country and which led to what has happened in Iraq would that be Christian?

Good luck your maker is watching you

Runner,

You mentioned, "I have sympathy with this stand Roy however it can be used as a cop out...."

The stand I advocate is not a cop out according to my understanding of Christ's teachings. Every time we focus on telling someone what they're doing wrong, we become hypocrites. Jesus' sermons on not judging, on removing the "beam" from our own eyes before we remove the "mote" from someone else's, are very clear.

Roy

Without wanting to sound smart because it sounds like you are very genuine in your attempts to follow Christ but are you not judging by saying we should not speak about issues such as abortion?
Kevin writes
'People who genuinely follow Christ have only one thing in mind - bringing disparate groups of people together, in PEACE. You don't need to be a "Christian" to do that either.' Many of Jesus disciples who could of saved their own lives by denying the risen Christ would disagree with you. It is true that we do our best to live at peace with all men. Unfortunately due to sin in the world this is not always possible

YABBY and CJ.

By stating that only 8% of Australians goto Church, and then whining about the impact of the ACL......(now think...see if it comes 2 u).... do you get it yet?

Come on...dig around in those brains... dig.... aaah..YOU GET IT NOW?

Goooooood..... if 8% can have a significant impact on the political process.... why the heck do you not see this as being applicable to OTHER groups especially militant ones..such as those I've been covering in a 'particular' thread? Hmmmmmm?

Methinks there is a tinnnny bit of 'selective deafness' out there.

The whole point about raising awareness about small groups having a big effect is that they CAN.... and DO.....

Yet....if Boazy 'outs' some mob, he is a Mosely, if Yabby outs the loony Christians he is a hero and a patriot..

ROY... about Christs teaching. Bear in mind though mate... Jesus also recognized threats to true faith, and he not only named them, he 'condemned' them... the main culprits were
-Saduceees
-Pharisees
-Lawyers
-Scribes.
We must always temper our criticism of others by awareness of our own 'sins'...and I'll guarantee you that that little sentence will be hurled back on me personally by a crowd of snarling, torch waving village predators :) very soon.

But unfortunately, as it was the the Lord Jesus, so it is for us. If you condemn or criticise, or expose... SOMEone will get their nose out of joint, and its usually the mob with some kind of vested interest in the target of the criticism being left alone. This goes without saying. I think the point of Jesus teaching, was that we should not judge others from the sense of personal righteousness.

Criticising movements, ideas, even particular individuals is not unbiblical.. see Pauls mention of "Alexander the Coppersmith, he did us great harm, watch out for him". Paul also appealed to the Emporer, exercising fully his Roman Citizenship when local flunkies were doing him badly.

Well BD, with you I see it a bit like the pot calling the kettle
black.

The Christian Taliban or Taliban are much the same, ie religious
extremists who take a very narrow worldview, focussed nearly
entirely on their religions. I once saw a programme discussing
the same problem in Israel. Its always religious extremists
of any kind, that seem to be the problem.

Somewhere I once read the stats of what % of people in various
countries either attend a church or mosque. You will find that
in muslim countries its much the same as with us. A small
% are religious fanatics, a larger % attend for social
reasons, the rest can't be bothered.

Us more secular people all seem to get on fine, as tolerance
and not being so judgemental and pontificating, is the basis
of it all.

So perhaps we should throw all you religious extremists together
into one country and let you argue it out about your gods,
whilst us more normal people could live together quite happily without you :)

What impresses me about this essay is how it summarises the very different Christian approaches of the two political leaders.

The summary of Howard’s presentation reveals a leader much more interested in the kind of Christianity that is moralistic, polarising, opportunistic, repressive and punishing.

By contrast, Rudd presents a very different Christianity – one that is compassionate, inclusive, intuitive and bottom-up in its social concerns.

I’m an atheist, but if I ever went back to Christianity, it’s the Rudd version that would get my donation when they hand around the plate.