Earthrise

I would deny that Israel made the first move. The 1948 and 1967 wars were both fought, for the most part, on Israeli soil. I.e. Israel WAS invaded. Not the other way around.

With Arab gov’ts across the Middle East committed to Israel’s destruction, Israel decided to take a strategic buffer, which unfortunately also coincided with Zionists ambitions in Judea and Samaria. That Israel needed a strategic buffer was amply demonstrated in 1973 when invading Arab armies drove significant distances into Israel proper.

Surely we can both acknowledge that these three wars weren’t about Israel’s possession of the West bank and Gaza strip. The Khartoum Arab Summit issued the "three no's," resolving that there would be "no peace, no recognition and no negotiation with Israel." These wars were fought over the EXISTENCE, or annihilation, of the Israeli state.

Unfortunately Israel still faces a majority of Arab countries who hold Israel’s destruction as an article of faith. To suggest that this mind set stems from the occupation is to deliberately misrepresent the facts. This sentiment predates the occupation and is likely to outlast it.

Israel must WIN the military confrontation for there to be any hope of peace. When I say win, what I mean is that before Palestinians get their land back they must commit to dismantling their terror organizations and recognize Israel’s right to exist. Otherwise Hamas etc will use the victory to rearm and refortify their new state for continued attacks on Israel. In this situation there would be no option, but for Israel to again invade.

Con’t

Con’t

I think what you are suggesting in regards to Abbas is a strong possibility. I think both the US and Israel are deliberately working towards strengthening the hand of Abbas and Fatah at the expense of Hamas. I don’t think that this is purely a divide and conquer operation. I think that if Abbas gains enough control, a settlement to create a new Palestinian state and an end to the violence is entirely possible.

I really don’t see what evidence you have to show America doesn’t want peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Especially considering the number of peace negotiations America has brokered over the years.

Military spending is not a realistic reason why America wouldn’t want peace in Israel/Palestine. Israel will still buy plenty of military hardware from the US.

America’s underlying strategic interest in the Middle East, after humanitarian concerns, is energy security. Energy security is enhanced by stability in the region, and peace between Israel and Palestine furthers that aim.

VK3AUU

Can you tell me what the significance is, of the Middle East not being completely Muslim? Because if you know of powerful Christian( or Hindu, Buddhist, other) groups making policy there, please let me know

Paul.l,

Israel's creation is a difficult one, as it was forced on the local population. Even though I see the injustice of this, I have to support international law through the imperfect UN. Israel in 1947 was significantly smaller than after the '48 war, the Arabs paid for their violence with Israel gaining more land. But this came with an act of genocide, the Nakba which terrorised hundreds of thousands of people into 'self-transferring' to other countries, where their descendants are still refugees. With the acceptance of Israel by the PLO, and the wider acceptance though the Arab Peace Accords, this ledger is balanced once a fair solution to the refugee problem is found.

What is not balanced is Israel's invasion and occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, this is the crime that must be addressed. The Settler project in the West Bank makes your claims that Israel plans to withdraw from all occupied land look ridiculous, at best. No-one but apologists believes Israel will withdraw without being forced to. There can be no peace or trust while Israel repeats Hitler's crimes of genocide, transferring populations and the annexation of land by force. They have already annexed the Golan during the 80's, a war crime of the highest calibre. There is no defence of this, and you perjure yourself by trying.

Trying to bring 1947-49 into the argument will only endanger the very existence of Israel, which many see in the world as immoral. I can accept it under international law, but if you push it too hard that will crack. You can't just stick to the Occupation, because it is beyond defending. My previous position is I believe the only moral and legal one, full withdraw, international recognition of Israel and then the right to defend her legally defined borders. Anything else is claiming Hitler was right.

“Even though I see the injustice of this, I have to support international law through the imperfect UN” –that is really a problem, I mean, the mean supporters of so-called international law on positions they employed for their Anglo-biological background only.

Perhaps, supposedly professional for their inherited biology only could hardly understand legality of “occupation” sustaining a national security of “aggressor” simply defending own state from “peaceful” neighbours looking forward to destroying a non-Muslim country before it was proclaimed even – and a legal deed for any (but the Jews as usual) according to an international law mentioned on these pages indeed.

No worries, Israel to be existing as just a dust of pokies to trace in the Islam Confederation of Southern Caliphate that is what to include a former Anglo-xenophobic colony of Australia.

Earthrise,

Israel has withdrawn its settlements from the Gaza.

At time time Israelis celebrate the anniversary of the independence, Palestinians mourn the establishment of Israel on their (al Nakba) Nakba Day. Had the Arab States accepted the partition of 1947, the State of Palestine would also be accepting its birthday. We are told that Palestinians object to the ‘occupation’ of territories caputured during the 6-Day War in 1967. If so, they should celebrate Nakba Day each June on the anniversary of the Arab defeat in that war. An odious comparison is that traffic is stopped and sirens of mouning wailed, mimicking the Isreali practice on Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The UN establishment of the State of Israel would have counted for nothing if nascent Israel hadn’t defended themselves against the massive Arab war- machine and won.

The UN Palestine Commission, not permitted by the Arabs nor by the British to implement the resolution, reported to the Security Council on February 16, that powerful Arab interests both within and outside were defying the resolution of the General Assembly.

Arabs took full responsibility for attacking Israel. Five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) invaded Israel. Azaam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League clearly declared their intentions: “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.”

Israel was born from the spilt blood of its people.

Earthrise,

Perhaps you would like to state for which specific acts of genocide Israel is accountable.

cont

In the May 2-7 2005 poll conducted by the Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre found that 54% of Palestinians welcome a two state solution, however, whilst the PA place the establishment of Israel on a par with the Holocaust the prospects remain bleak.

Isn’t it about time that Palestinian leadership looked seriously at establishing the Palestinian State - and just got on with it. Good will demonstrated by the PA will go a long way to eleviating any perceived injustices.

Israel’s current population: 7 million

76% Jews;
20% Arab;
4% Druze, Baha’is, Circassians, and other ethnic groups.

Nonie Darwish, stated on Al-Arabiya TV on March 23, last:

“We should begin to view the Palestinian Arab cause in a different manner. For 58 yeas we have been fighting Israel... Enough, we must resolve this problem, because it hinders the progess of the Arab peoples ... we must be just and grant them security. There are five million of them, and we are 1.2 [billion] Muslims. What are we afraid of - five million Jews? We must welcome them so they can live in our midst ... we must stop the terrorism in Israel, and we must not encourage Hamas to say it wants to annihilate Israel. Ahmadinejad is not even an Arab - what does he have to do with Israel? Is he acting this way in order to unify his people?”

Rashid Khalidi, director of the Middle East Institute stated:

“It is time that Palestinian leaders looked at their own weaknesses instead of blaming everything on Zionism, imperialism, and other outside forces.”

Raji Sourani, director of the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza, said:

“officials with the mind-set of a banana republic are causing tremendous damage to the Palestinian cause.”