Good one Stephany!
[rolling on the floor in laughter]

Actually it's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility , when you consider some of the things which are being passed off as "history” is some parts of non-kafir world

Stephany,

1.
>>Religion and state separated after the Prophet Muhammad's passing.>>

Irfan's comment highlights the difference between sunni and shiaa.
Not sure where were you the last 14 centuries, but Sunni/Shiaa conflict is about the system of governance where we (sunnis) believe the prophet
at his death refused to chose a successor but delegated it to muslims to chose a leader.
The following 4 capliphs followed the same system and were not related. Where shiaa muslims believe in the Imam's ali succership and the 'imams succession in general'.
The separation of religion and state is what caused Islamic enlightment to come 2.5 centuries after its appearance, while it took other european
religions 14-15 centuries to separate religion and state.
If you want to understand the dynamics of the sunni/shiaa conflict start by googling the farewell sermon of the prophet.

2. Muslims and science prizes: if you check the Nobel prize website there are at least 10 Muslim winners in the last 20 years (including 4 for peace and many more for chemistry, physics and philosophy).
I don't think we are doing bad given the Islamic culture is at rock bottom..we are still contributing :-)

Peace,

Horus

If you think my post is funny follow this link:

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp

In the box where it says Clip# ...... Search

Enter 1313

View the clip. It's what inspired my post.

WARNING:

The violent, uncontrollable mirth induced by watching this clip may be injurious to your health. Take care.

Fellow_Human

At least you, unlike most Muslims, are prepared to admit that Islamic culture is "at rock bottom." Now what do you do to get off the bottom?

Yes it is at rock bottom Pell however is close to that too.

People talk of Hirsi Ali suffering female circumcision.This term is really a euphemism for female castration.It is akin to the removal of both the testes and penis of men.They remove not only the labia but also the clitoris.This is the ultimate in the subjuation of women to that of men.To even entertain this facist religion of having any credibility in our enlightened times,makes a mockery of all the West has achieved in the last 200yrs.

We must keep all religions out of our political systems or end up like Malaysia,Sudan or Saudi Arabia.Just look at the track record of Islam around the world and smell the depraved reality.

Dear StevenLMeyer and 'poor' Bugsy :) (couldn't resist that Bugsy lest you think we are so injured by your scalliwagedness in dissing 'religion')

I can see how 'life' can be quite a zing without Christ.... yes..I really can.... in fact.. our dear sister Paris Hilton has taught us a great lesson there.. which is of course "You can get away with a lot, for a long time, but eventually.. justice catches up with us"

If the 2 alternatives of secularism and Faith(the Christian type) were..
a) Dark, morose, self hating,Priest fearing, guilt ridden misery....(The faith)
b) Joy, freedom, wonder, exhilaration, peace, purpose, direction, confidence, self control, etc.. (secularism)....

we might be mildly persuaded by your position.
But the reality is, Biblical Christians enjoy "b" and not 'a'.

Secularists 'think' Christians dwell in "a".. and that they themselves dwell in 'b'... but.. I have to disagree on many grounds.
Substitute 'Scientific Orthodoxy' for 'priest' in "a" and you have todays secular community.

The absense of God, unquestionably means an abandonment of all foundation of morality, which of course leads to the dark, mould encrusted, fearful, nightmare of existentialism. (A Clockwork Orange)
It doesn't mean the abandonment of 'morality'.. but its valid foundation. We are left with MIUAUG with zero limiting factor.

The only possible foundation for ANY kind of secular morality is.... 'existentialism'.. I think (act,feel pain, do things etc)..therefore, I 'am'. But I ask..am 'what'?

Your doubts about Jesus are shallow, flimzy and with little foundation when the evidence is scrutinized fairly. (i.e. by the same standards you may apply to similar historical figures)

All I hear from the 'adventurous secularists' is... froth and bubble in a swirling tank of meaningless philosophical green slime :) yes.. really.

FH who says the Shia are wrong and the Sunni right? After all, there are LOTS of Shia, now that must be a compelling argument right?