Hi Logic

Nice to see you again. We've been over these things many times...and simply can't agree. However Olmert and the West seemed lately to be considering discussing that Arab League proposal and I do think the right of return a bit over the top.

Regards Keith

ps the Muslims probably think similar about Israel's education system.

Keith

“anomolies (sic)?, contradicyions(sic)? ... and outright lies” ?

Everything I have stated is on record. Read reliable histories of the Middle East, ensuring they are heavily referenced with primary sources. Especially read primary sources themselves.

The past impinges on the present in profound ways and with deep implications ... You just see the “product”, but you need to know the “process”. This is basic education.

Read the Report of the Palestinian Royal Commission quoting an account of the Maritime Plain 1913 (Palestine Royal Commission Report), p. 233.

Read Mark Twain’s description in “The Innocents Abroad”.

Compare it with the State of Israel now. Why do Palestinians want Israel? Not sentimental attachment, but the sight of Israel’s progress.

Leading Arab nationalist Sherif Hussein (father of Emir Faisal ), guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia, saw the benefits of Jewish migration into Palestine, very well :

“Palestinians used to leave his country ...His native soil could not retain a hold on him ... At the same time we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine. ... The return of these exiles (jaliya) to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually [to be] an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the field, factories, trades, and in all things connected with toil and labour.” (Al-Qibla, March 23, 1918)

The population of Palestinian Arabs was in steep decline before the 1922 Mandate. It grew expotentially when thousands of Arabs from surrounding countries came to take advantage of the rapid development and improved health conditions.

As for stealing land; the Peel Commission found that Jews paid exhorbitant prices for Arab land. Uncultivated, sand-dunes, or swaps, when purchased, were now Jewish-owned orange groves. (Palestine Royal Commission, 1937); pp.241-242.

Transjordan’s King Abdullah wrote:

“It is made quite clear to all ... that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping.”
King Abdullah, My Memoirs Completed (London, Longman Group Ltd., 1978) pp.88-89.

Read current media from Israel, Palestine, Arab States, and Iran. Read works by intellectuals from these countries.

By 1947, the partition resolution saw Arabs holding the majority in western Palestine - 1.2 million - Jews 600,000.

Jews were the majority in the area allotted them; but had no chance to increase because of the restrictive immigration policy imposed by the British.

Educated Palestinians know the benefit of a Palestinian State.

A Palestinian academic observed:

“The message to Palestinian children is that if you can use violence ... you can achieve influence and you can rule ... a whole generation was raised on the denial of the “other” and erasing him completely, and to the possibility of killing him without restraint or problem.”

An Arab friend said: Palestinian children are fed on hatred, not just at school and in mosques, but also through comic books and TV - against Israel.

Forget that the population of Israel is 20% Arab Muslim - to be killed indiscriminately along with all other groups.

Should Israel admit such people into its country?

(Yet, Palestinians, conditionally, can enter... see: Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law 5763 (2003); amendment of May 8, 2005.)

Is it suprising that Israeli’s take the precautions they do, being constantly under seige, or threat. Have Palestinians bent on terrorist attacks, bombings ... been deterred by a line in the sand ... or the fact they kill brother Palestinians as well?

Until the Palestinians themselves are properly educated, make peace firstly amongst themselves, then with Israel, no amount of conferences, summitts, and talks are going to change the situation. Considering attitudes of Arab States to Palestinians, do you think they really care?

Olmert, the West, and Arab League proposal?

Ignore that armed Hamas and other militant groups deny the right of Israel to exist.

Look what the Palestinians are doing to each other now.

Yet, twelve Arabs serve in the Knesset, two hold full ministerial positions; hold positions in the Supreme Court, the Foreign Service, the IDF, including Major General Hussain Fares, commander of Israel's border police, and Major General Yosef Mishlav, head of the Israeli Home Front Command and current Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories .

Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka
"I understood that the Palestinians were driven of their land when Jews took the land of them having first waged a campaign of terrorism against them!"

No that is not correct. The attacks of some Arab groups against Jews occurred before the exodus of Palestinians. The attack on Jews in Hebron for example, in the 1920s. This attack was against long standing ancient Jewish communities. The Arabs attacked first trying to push out the Jews.

The situation was partly a transfer of populations between sections of the former Caliphate. The arrival of European Jews into the Jewish area was an influx of an out of town group, but this was made possible by the introduction of modern agriculture. Before the Europeans arrived the area was only capable of supporting a very small population, it is now able to export food.

It is interesting that those Arabs who remained in Israel have achieved a much better standard of living, a vote and have parliamentary representation. Even in the occupied territories Universities were created which did not exist there before. And women are allowed to attend them.

Gaza is no longer occupied.

Logic

Have the Israeli's stopped that compulsory teaching that educates their Jewish kids how to kill their neighbours. You know that compulsory conscription? Seems every anti-Arab propagandist always overlook that pertinant little fact. Still that exercise seems a bit useless, doesn't work any longer and can no longer be defended as a legitimate defence given the useless application of conscripts in the Israeli aggression in Lebanon and Gaza.

Regards

ps I know your view on the subject.

keith

Stop that nonsense. I am not an anti-Arab propagandist. A lot of countries have conscription for the army. Switzerland for example. I was in the school cadets in Australia and learnt how to use a rifle. I was rather a bad shot anyone killed by me would have to be very unlucky. Israel is under constant threat.

Muslims have a choice as to whether they enter the Israeli army, some actually do. Those who don't do not have to pay any taxes in lieu. Druze through their leaders have chosen conscription. There are also Christians in the Israeli army it is not exclusively Jewish.

Regarding the Hezbollah conflict, the Israelis managed to destroy all of Hezbollah's rocket launchers and get them away from the border regions. Which was not all they hoped to achieve but certainly gave them a respite from rocket attacks.

I pity the poor Palestinians, but they were led down the garden path by some evil rulers. A culture of hatred has developed amongst them with their TV promoting suicide amongst their children. This is well documented. They received billions in aid from the US but this was all spirited away by corrupt leadership and heavy spending on arms, had they chosen to modernize they would have been well off.

There was a high rate of Muslim immigration into Palestine after the Jews had started to transform it, many of the refugees were probably not exactly from that area. If those who left had been accepted back into Jordan the way nearly a million Jewish refugees from Iraq, Morocco, Egypt etc. were we would not be in the mess that we are now in.

If you choose to ignore these points under the smokescreen of Zionist propaganda you will be lazy in your thinking and Danielle will eat you. No I do not know who she is other than she is not Jewish.