CJ Morgan: No, but do you have some other plan that will work?

Pericles: Yes, it’s Xian as in Xmas. It isn’t off-colour that I know of, but just a convenient abbreviation. ‘X’ is the capitalised form of the first letter of the New Testament Greek word for Christ. You might have seen it, in Roman Catholic circles, combined with ‘P’, the second letter, into a composite symbol. Sorry it seems twee.

Boaz, I accept the private/public distinction, thank you. My hope is that the two are connected, so that progress (if any) in the private sphere, incl the interfaith discussions, will spread to the public. I’m pretty open-minded about the result – I mean, as ready for the worst (EG being suckered into the semblance of progress in one sphere, while wild public agendas are pursued elsewhere) as for the best (real peace, despite disagreement). We’ll see, eh?

Fellow Human, I’m aware that many Xians, and many Xian churches, esp those with a social justice emphasis, will focus attention on the way Jesus lived his life – his ethos. And they will say that Xianity has, in its exclusive focus on the death and resurrection, overlooked this incredibly important stuff. However, this is not to say they reject the resurrection, or Jesus’ divinity, they just don’t talk about it much.

The big Xian churches rely on the Nicene Creed as the basic formulation of their faith. It states that Jesus is God. No matter how we haggle here about the history of the development this doctrine, the doctrine exists and governs the majority of Xians. If you want to talk to so-called Xians who don’t believe in Jesus’ divinity, then you are talking to the margin. Perhaps they are fodder for Islam, but Xians generally are not. Jesus is a problem in any discussion of this kind.

But, not the kind of problem that has to kill the discussion dead. We can have peace without consensus. This isn't too secular for your taste, is it?

I don’t find your “debt clearing” very convincing. Repentance I understand and recognise, and clearing the debt may be possible when there is someone to whom to return property. However, what if you take a limb from someone, or a life? Or mess with their wife? Or lie? And what about wrongs that have no victim: Islam is as concerned about chastity as Christianity is and much of this is “private”, with no victim to repay. Who is the victim of one’s immodesty? Or of one’s malevolent thoughts? How is the debt cleared then? And what of the offence to God? Does repentance suffice for God? If so, then why do we owe humans even more, namely, the substantial clearing of the debt?

That's a handful, isn't it? Take your time.

CJM, a way to stop islamic extremism.

99% of Muslims are born into a Muslim family. 99.9% of these Muslims do not want to be accused by their fellow Muslims as being a bad Muslim. So they would conform irrationally to the bigoted teachings of the Koran rather than risk being accused by the Islamists as bad Muslims.

One can’t blame a Muslim to be in a state of denial of their predicament because from a very young age they have been brain-washed by the Islamic cleric and threatened with hell-fire.

We can only admire those Muslims who can think rationally and have the courage to live a secular life-style and speak out against the barbaric and superstitious practices of Islamic extremism.

The best people to stop Islamic extremism are the bold Muslims who have made a stand against the jihadist. The likes of who are Ali Sani, Ibn Warraq, Tawfik Hamid, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Irshad Manji,Walid Phares, Wafa Sultan, etc. They would understand Islam better than any non-Muslim.

(1) There is a need to address the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Give back to the Palestinians some of the land forcibly taken from them. Restore Palestinian dignity by the creation of a Palestinian state based on a secularist constitution.

(2) Leave ‘God’ out of politics. Stop the mixing of religion and politics. Movements such as Zionism, Christian Zionism and political Islam should be carefully examined and de-politicized, if possible. Otherwise they should be declared as political systems and not admitted as religions.

(3) Support all secular authoritarian systems in Muslim-majority countries in putting down the Islamist. e,g. support the Turkish military to uphold secularism in Turkey, or support the Pakistan military in closing down madrassas linked to Islamic extremism.

Philip Tang,

I have been following your posts with interest.

You said:

>>It’s time to put a stop to world terrorism viz, Islam and all it stands for -- jihad and Shariah law<<

How can anything change in Islam when we see ALL Muslims following the acts, sayings and deeds of their beloved prophet, without questioning them, for fear of reprisals and/or superstition?

A growing minority become fanatical about their Qur’an and decide to act out their faith: jihad.

But for the majority Islam is not much more than a cultural thing. That does not mean of course that the so called secular or moderate Muslims do not agree with anti-western sentiments and are proud to expose their kids to jihadist materials.

Then in the next post you make some noble suggestions which unfortunately are all “western” ideologis, dare I say very “Bush-like” naivety.

Give them a taste of secularism and they will change. Nope!

I’m afraid I have to concur with the infamous words of Darryl Kerrigan of The Castle: “Tell him he's dreaming”.

In your own words you say:” One can’t blame a Muslim to be in a state of denial of their predicament…”

It is that predicament that is unstoppable. Islam has always fought change and adaptation. Muslims are torn between seventh century nomadic culture and modern civilization.

As for your three points

1) Fixing the Palestinian/Israeli conflict
2) Leave God out of politics
3) Support secularism – fight Islamism

A good example is Egypt back in the 70’s. Sadat payed with his own life trying to achieve those goals. He even went as far as making peace with Israel.

The current Mubarak regime is still keeping fanatics at bay, and even though there is an open border between the two countries today, the sound of the rumbling Islamic volcano is still shacking the Egyptian establishment.

The brotherhood (origin of Al-kaida) is being eying governance since Islam lost it in 1924. Give them have half a chance to a “successful” coup d’etat and it's: out with modernism and in with full blown Islam.

Solutions anyone?

Goodthief,

I think the forum is not the right place. Happy for you to email me
on viewsexchange@gmail.com. Its my personal email address.

Coach, PhilipTang,

The solution to terrorism comes from the Muslim world as Coach correct analysis: that is for muslim countries and peaceful majority to eradicate the militant brand.
Similar to the british model with the IRA, they separated the movement from faith. So we need to think of how to separate Militants Islamist from Islam so Muslim communities start taking their responsibility as a first line of defense.
Thoughts?

coach, I'm pleased to see that you have stopped the online equivalent of frothing at the mouth (placing-a-hyphen-between-each-word-to-fool-the-word-count).

It was very annoying. And it makes your posts even more difficult to understand than they already are.

But I finally deciphered at least a part of it.

You, it appears, claim to be Christian, but not religious. Since Christianity is, by definition, a religion, I am mystified how you can justify this highly convenient separation.

I say convenient, because using this denial as a shield, you can escape the comparison with other life choices such as vegetarianism.

But this, on the topic of heaven and hell, explains a great deal about your entire approach:

>>I have no problem believing the author of the Bible because everything else in it is true why would I doubt some things over other things?<<

Again, a highly convenient but ultimately meaningless claim. It absolves you from the need to explain anything difficult for us mere mortals to grasp, such as "what, exactly, are heaven, and hell?"

As a creationist, it is only natural that you believe in them. But since you are unable to explain them, how come you are such an authority on who will be let in and who will be excluded?

As I asked before, and will try without a great deal of hope to ask again...

Tell us please, what are heaven and hell? Do they exist, in the sense that we exist? Or are they merely metaphysical constructs, that we can imagine and change at will? Or are they simply metaphors, illustrating the benefits of a good life and the pitfalls of a bad one?

It's OK, I won't be holding my breath.