Missed the point? Laughable attempt to deflect criticism Yabby. Of course we will all be recycled; however, I would prefer to be recylced after many happy years of life free from exploitation. Wouldn't you? A murdered child is recycled; an 85 year old great-grandmother who dies of old age is recycled. I'm almost certain that you don't need it to be clarified which method of - and age at - death is most preferable.

You then raise the point that I see the world through my eyes as opposed to those of other species. If I saw the world through only my own eyes, I wouldn't care what happened to other species. I actually have a fairly sound understanding of animal psychology and pyhsiology; even if I didn't, it doesn't take a huge amount of intelligence to identify pain and suffering in other species. It's fairly obvious when an animal is placed in a state of fear - a state which, given all you pertain to know about sheep, I'm sure you will know is far worse in terms of welfare than a state of pain.

In your view, anthropomorphism is a distorted world view. I tend to agree; to assess animal behaviour using human emotions and instincts is folly. What is a far worse crime, however, is the terrible distrotions of perspective brought about by anthropocentrism.

I'm not guilty of the former - perhaps you should question whether you are you guilty of the latter?

What legislation Perseus? When were the proposed amendments legislated, Perseus? Are the proposals yet mandatory?

The proposals recommend the Willis drop technique be restricted to non-veterinarians and stock owners who are NOT required to use any analgesia or anaesthetic.

The Willis drop technique will mitigate a spoiling of the beef, wouldn't you agree, Perseus? If there are any cattle barons out there, with a degree of compassion for their animals, they would employ a veterinarian who uses an anaesthetic.

The Veterinarian Surgeons Act does not prevent persons from performing any acts of veterinary science on their own animals, providing it is not for a fee or reward.

The Cattle Council recommended that flank spaying be considered for exemption as a veterinary service. (12/9/05)

Doggone it Pers, yo sho ar sendin' signals - I hope ya not playin' hillbilly games wit me. Yer betta take more grits wit dat moonshine man on acount of yer haloosinashuns!

Ah cudnt unnerstand a werd yous sed, Pers - yous must be from some farm county?

Nah, Ma sez he's a tardbilly - haze jus ignert!

LL, at some point you have to accept basic evolution theory. As
Darwin pointed out, far more of any species will be born, then
can every survive. There is only so much room on the planet, so
many resources to go around.
Every individual has to make a living, one way or another.

If my farm animals have happy lives, lives they would not have
had if nature had prevailed, lives they enjoyed, why should it
be a problem if they are eaten? Fact is there is only so much
room on the planet for so many. If we left it up to nature,
they would simply die a cruel death of starvation, but of course
thats missed on the tv screens.

A wise farmer limits his stocking rate to the carrying capacity of
the land. Overpopulation results in much suffering, thats the reality.
So sending animals to a meatworks is in fact the kinder option.

Anthropocentrism has all sorts of religious connotations, but thats
another long story.

LL, you don't want to confuse suffering with loss of dignity.
A sheep with its legs tied might well lose its dignity, but you'd
have to provide some evidence that its actually suffering.

Finally, exploitation will happen as part of life, as people and
other species, act in their own self interest. Your lover might tell
you he loves you, to obtain sex. Your children might exploit your
natural motherly love towards them, to gain benefits. Thats part
of the journey of life, get used to it.

So Dickie finally betrays the undelying anti-rural bigotry that characterises this so-called animal rights movement. He wraps himself in a veneer of reasonableness but betrays a level of bigotry which, if applied to any other community group, would see him justifiably outcast and possibly convicted.

He has been badly caught out peddling a load of bollocks. According to the regulatory impact assessment of the 2002 changes to the Queensland legislation and regulations, Flank spaying is virtually non-existent in commercial practice.

But this moron has tried to convince people that every second farmer is out there just itching to carry out a practice that is uneconomic, poses a major risk to his assets, and diminishes their resale value.

Animal rights activists are engaged in a deliberate campaign to demonise a target group for political gain. A bunch of sickos.

Speaking of which ,

PETA and Animals Australia certainly would prefer talk about anything even Yabb`s worms rather than the issue of the `veggie cult`.

That’s clear if you read the last few posts.

In case you have forgotten the question we have asked for six years >

Why does PETA, AA, AL, Voiceless refuse to assist farmers and animals by helping to establish co joint FREE RANGE Farms with Aussie Farmers and overseas live animal importers?

You completely ignored along with Senator Andrew Bartlett the Submission to the Senate Enquiry into Animal Welfare lodged by AFIC PALE RSPCA QLD.?

AFIC being Australian Federation of Islamic Council - and the MOU signed with PALE which was as the humane Society wrote was a huge step in the right direction.

A good example of working together ` but` not so according to Glenyce. Oogjes

Instead emails and phone calls instructing members not to work with us went out.

It was claimed we were only interested in establishing a commercial venture to make money from killing animals??

I should think even John Howard labour and the typical Good Christian Senator Fielding could vouch as to the fact we have asked this to be a `policy`” not a private venture!”

Surely the public will agree if we can divert live importers into part abattoir owners and exporters along with grass roots farmers, it will reduce and eventually replace live exports and create more jobs in regional areas.

There are many members of the public that have joined Animals Australia, and Animal Liberation groups that `just might` see the Merritt in such a proposal but you have never given them the opportunity.

It requires everybody involved.ie. Looking for new sites for plants, finding old sites including small domestic plants, that possibly with a lot of infustructure could be updated and accredited to export standard.

Animals Australia and a few others have ‘now’ put on their web sites `Support Free Range Farmers`. - Good- A step in the right direction.

However there is not much sense in telling people to only buy Free Range while refusing to assist create more Free Range, because we do not have the supply.

Oh yeh of course I forgot and make a donation.

Similarity not much sense in saying divert live animal exports into carcass trade only while putting the boot into those that have taken steps to do just that.

Behind your web page you still consistently refuse to set an example of that by working with the alternative put forth by PALE RSPCAQLD with their MOU with AFIC.

They, Animals Australia say- They could never be involved with anything to do with abattoirs because it would upset their Veggie members.

It only stands to reason until we get an alternative up and running and show farmers they will get good steady prices, live animal exports will not only continue, but triple at very least.

People have stood waving placards at docks and warfs for decades but we prefer to do something more than use those good people and fund raise.
We want to get in and help open abattoirs and so should you.

You want live Exports banned. Good. Then [content deleted] get off your high horses and help us.

PETA literally hang up the phone if contacted.

So Ingrid,
, If you are reading this why do you refuse to debate this issue with the only group who is actually speaking on behalf of the majority the Australian public meat eaters?

What’s the matter Ingrid are you afraid people might put their donations into helping to build more abattoirs in Australia to stop live Exports?

If you learn to stop hiding behind your vailes we might actually be able to do something to help both farmers and Animals.

Mind you, you have done a pretty good job of making enemies of Australian Farmers and Animal Welfare Groups
So Tar.

That makes our job real easy!