Yabby

If 'veggies' are not to be 'trusted' to give an unbiased view of reality, then neither are 'meaties'. Those who eat meat have a vested interest in ensuring the survival of those industries which thrive on consumer ignorance of the cruelties inherent in many farming practices.

Similarly, those who opposed the slave trade had a vested interest in abolishing this practice; they were compassionate humans and could not bear to sit back and watch atrocities unfold and perpetuate around them while sitting idle. Those who were in support of the slave trade had a vested interest in upholding the practice; they prospered through cruelty, exploitation and greed, and didn't want to give up their prosperity, even when the price was terrible, indefensible human suffering. I know which side I would have supported, and I know which side history looks upon favourably.

When faced with making the compassionate choice or making the one that will make me the most money, I know what I will choose. You assume I am 'veggie' - you are correct. Of course I am veggie. I see terrible cruelties in this world and I choose to withdraw my support. This makes me a normal human being, responding appropriately and intelligently to a situation. That is normal. Many of the most intelligent humans who have ever lived were vegetarian and professed with pride to be such.

Those who go along with the 'norm' will not be remembered by history; those who fight against the flow, who make real, lasting changes for the better will be remembered - and thanked - by history. Again, I know what side I would rather be on

One of Yabby's previous posts states:

"My point is we have plenty of welfare issues right here in Australia before we arrogantly claim to be so perfect to all other countries." (19/10/06)

Yabby, we wait with bated breath - do tell. Which welfare issues are you referring to? I don't believe you've told us about them.

The Australian Veterinary Association are in perfect sync with those who protest against the heinous surgical procedures performed by non-veterinarians who, lusting after a fast buck, perform this surgery without the benefit of an anaesthesia:

"The AVA does not support the surgical flank spaying of cattle by non-veterinarians. This technique may be performed by veterinarians with the use of anaesthesia."

It is the AVA's belief that the welfare of the cattle is best protected if a veterinarian conducts the surgery." (09/06)

So Yabby, did you adopt an acceptance of animal torture in farming practices, after you arrived in Australia, or did you bring these ideologies with you from the Motherland?

LL, you miss the point. Recycling is part ot nature. Even you
will be chewed up and spat out by the worms, when you fall off
the proverbial perch :) Now which species recycles you once
you have croaked it, really won't affect you too much. Its just
natures way. I don't think that sheep or any other species
really care too much either.

Your mext mistake is seeing the world through just your eyes and
not that of other species etc. Herbivores are fairly contented
creatures, if their basic needs are fullfilled. Food, water,
shelter, being around other herbivores or the same species etc.

If we look at the life of many herbivores on Aussie farms, they
have it far easier then many humans. No great stresses, just chew
the cud and enjoy the scenery. No working for 2$ a day in Chinese
sweatshops either. The fact that they get eaten after they die,
means they have the same fate as awaits you!

So you are free to be a veggie if it makes you feel better, but its
flawed philosophy, for I don't really think that the sheep would care
a great deal, as to which species recycled them. I certainly don't,
I won't be here to know.

Dickie I've never heard of your cattle claims, but then I'm not
in the cattle industry. Go and ask them. Unlike you, I don't read
a couple of pages of a website and then claim to be an expert.

Yes, sheep have their legs tied in Australia, they also have their
throats cut. Compared to how we torture old people in the name
of religion, waiting for them to die a slow, agonising death all
by themselves, until their last breath, now that is cruel!

Yabby

You really are a classic,

LL as I said to Nicky -welcome to Yabby`s world of worms.


I hope one day everybody will work together.

Truth - WE!, must open more plants to faze live animal exports.

Nobody is going to do it for us.

Listen to what Yabby is saying.

`They have offered no viable alternatives.` but not to a bunch of people who object to farming and eating meat.` That is what the Government and agents say to the public as an excuse.

The meat industry is a tough so we have to put `all` our efforts into building abattoirs
` even if we personally don’t like them`.

That’s how you fade out Live exports. Get stuck in and give them some competition. Fight for a better price for Farmers.

Become farmers best friend not the enermy.

Don’t you get it yet.?

It doesn’t matter how bad the footage is. They require better prices here and staff to compete.

Put up the right arguments and demands.

You can’t have your foot in both camps- meaning your either loyal to the PETA vegetarian members or you ` really` support Free Range Farmers.

Only when the main stream approach is adopted we can work to make things better and improve over time.


Let’s look at AFIC as well. They certainly have been supportive

You have all being used like porn’s by clever politicians and middle men.

I mean all of you- Farmers and vegetarian groups. Set up against each other.

Couldn’t be better for the live Animal Shipping middle men.

Ask yourself why Andrew in twenty years never asked AFIC to put out a Media Release against live Exports as I did to support you?

He had far! more time and opportunities to ask than us.

To whom does that party give their preferences? Sit quietly and think about it before you jump down my throat.

Farmers are misguided and deceived by those they ` think` look after their interests just like these groups. Its called Politics!

Brunei has a delegation over here at the moment talking to people about supplying Halal product.

There's a meeting in (in Bass Coast Shire) actually it involves three local councils.

Wondering why Dianne Carson from Regional Development Victoria didn’t forward to contact details [as promised ]

Equal opportunity is required to introduce the farmers to AFIC leaders and overseas purchasers. Offer AFIC accreditation and co joint ventures.


Perhaps it could be that they felt after being overseas guests they were obligated to Elders who arranged it all.

The thing is shouldn’t the councils, MLA, Austrade and the other public funded authorities give all! an equal! chance to present their proposals?

Thats good for Animal Welfare and jobs for Australians and very good for farmers giving them what matters most.- A fair steady price.

Regardless of who paid whose airfares and accommodation these councils still supposedly work for the public.

If Peter Costello wants a show and tell on Animal Welfare fund uses the public might just ask the same of the appointed authorities.

Yabby As for WA I am still waiting for Hugh or Tim.
Now before you say it-

The credibility is with AFIC leaders, delegates from Malaysian ME Russia etc.

So in fact it would not matter if we were Robinson Cruso.

FFs wont allow us to put out a memo.

These people from overseas are not stupid. They are business people and want direct! contact with farmers.

They don’t trust middle men or the Government.

The real problem is the hidden agenda of the Farmers Federations and others to push to Live Animal Export trade.

Everybody should have a right to put forward their products and proposals through Austrade and The Minister of Trades.

At the moment in Australia this is most certainly not the case.

When the farmers suddenly wake up and realize they can do without the politicians the middle agent men, but the politicians and the middle men can’t do without them things will change so quickly it will make your head spin.

For the record, Dickie, it is "spaying" not Spraying. And here is the Qld regulations that spell out the true situation.

"The Willis spay method is accepted as the quickest, simplest and
least stressful means of spaying. With this method of spaying, the
hide is not damaged and required restraint is minimal. The
technique has been widely adopted by industry as it is the most
economical means of surgical spaying.
In the interests of animal welfare, the exclusion of surgical cattle
spaying as an act of veterinary science needs to be limited to the
Willis method. The flank entry method if required, for instance in
a case of the animal being too heavily in calf or too small for
passage spaying, should be performed by registered veterinary
surgeons using appropriate prescription drugs for anaesthesia and
infection combatant".

So in on those rare occasions when spaying is done, it is done by the "quickest, simplest and least stressful means", the Willis. Flank Spaying is only done in very unusual circumstances and is only done by Vets as they are the only ones with access to anaesthetics.