Oh Irfan, you really are the complete bedürfen.

Why worry about sharia supporters in Mauritania when Infoplease has the following to say about that delightful Islamic country:
"Although Mauritania officially abolished slavery in 1980, the nation continues to tolerate the enslavement of blacks by North African Arabs. In 1993, the U.S. State Department estimated that there were more than 90,000 chattel slaves in the country".

Think that slavery has disappeared since then? Don't think so ... just check out the story that was in The Weekend Australian only one week ago. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21355920-2703,00.html)

OLO readers might also like to peruse the news article "Islamic moral drive spreads fear in Indonesia" that appeared in The Sydney Morning Herald on March 11, 2006. As was noted in the article:
"Tangerang (a satellite city of Jakarta - ST) is not the only regional administration to introduce bylaws reflecting Sharia - Islamic law. And a proposed national anti-pornography law will ban public kissing and any clothing considered alluring. Baring a navel would earn a jail term. Moderate Muslim organisations are supporting the changes, but intellectuals, feminists and artists are beginning to mobilise against what they believe is a hardline agenda to reshape Indonesia."

Why worry about JI when 'moderate Muslims' are supporting draconian changes to the way Muslim-majority countries are run in the 'moral' sphere.

TNT, probably didn't see a real cross section on society? Maybe didn't stray from your little bubble perhaps? I can't think of a SINGLE ex pat person that I work with / socialise with that would think the way you do. And before you start I'm not going to get into a discussion about which country I live in at the moment / lived in / been to. But without exception, the general feeling is one of respect towards the 'host' nation...but thank christ ours isn't like this!

'TR, try telling that to 1.2 billion people across the globe.'

That is the general idea Irfan.

Ultimately, the notion of the Torah/Bible/Koran being the literal word of God will collapse. It has to. Especially once Islamic states are truly opened up to competing 'memes' and ideas. Secularists only have to allow education to take its course via the internet and globalisation.

Look around you Irfan, the signs are there already. How many Muslims do you know who are having significant doubts about the Hadith? And of course once the Hadith loses its authority the Sunna is opened up for re-discussion, literalistic fundamentalism goes out the window, and the traditional historical setting of the Koran starts to get mighty shakey.

As you know Irfan the Islamic religion has been fortunate enough to escape the sceptical criticism of Western academia - unlike its Christian counterpart. Once Islam is truly opened up to proper inquiry it will flounder in the same way as Christianity. Not only will we have a non-divine 'Historical Jesus' we will also have a 'Historical Muhammad' without the super-naturalism.

You must know all this Irfan - you're an intelligent man.

TNT,
I fully agree with your last paragraph. At least we agree on somethings. I also appreciate the tone of your responses.

I have constantly said that we have to ensure that prospective migrants ARE fully aware of our laws and social standards BEFORE they decide to come here. That is lacking right now.

Then, as you say, we must ridgidly enforce those standards. This earns respect for the standards. No more simple slap on the wrists to those that do not comply. This applies to all, whether one is born here, granted citizenship or a new arrival.

Snappy Tom.. thanks for that, very well put.
As for Australian standards, I guess they can be summarised in one word -- pragmatism.

TrueAussie:
"TNT, probably didn't see a real cross section on society? Maybe didn't stray from your little bubble perhaps?"

That's true to an extent. But you quickly pick up a feel for how safe a place is, especially when, as I've said, I've gone to the no-go zones & the more fundamentalist areas. Also because news of trouble spreads like wild-fire, you are quickly warned off certain areas. But that's the thing. It's extremely rare & the authorities usually go over the top just to cover themselves. Being an ex Sydney-sider, I've felt very uncomfortable all over that place at times, from a Canterbury league game/Aussie day-nighter, to hanging around train stations, to a walk in Hyde Park in broad daylight, to coming up against a road-raged Aussie. In Gulf Arabic countries (Iraq excluded due to very exceptional circumstances), as well as Iran, Syria, Jordan, you will rarely, if ever, get these vibes. There's a common phrase in Arabic 'that's haraam', meaning roughly 'that's not the done thing', eg swearing, fighting, & generally anti-social behaviour. I don't expect you to take what I say at face value, & by all means talk to ex-pat colleagues, but at least make the effort to talk to people who have been to the Islamic places referred to above before flatly refuting it.

"And before you start I'm not going to get into a discussion about which country I live in at the moment / lived in / been to."

Why, would that lead to an admission that you havent been to any of these places & maybe weaken your argument?

Banjo,
cheers & likewise. I've come across some of your posts on other threads & found myself agreeing on most points. But I also like disagreement because it challenges my own thinking & logic (or lack thereof!)