Irfan,

There is a deep irony with your essay. Here you are defending Sheik Hilaly with the freedom of speech allowed by On-Line Opinion - a secular site. Yet you would not be able to do the same thing on the Islamic Sydney Forum - a Muslim site. Why? Because you have been gagged by your fellow brothers who DO NOT value freedom of speech.

Australians are not stupid. We see Islamic hypocrisy clearly. The men of the Islamic political machine use Western values when it suits them but hide behind the same values like cowards when their ivory tower is threatened by rational argument and debate.

All the evidence is out there. Islamic ‘moderates’ like yourself are in a minority and are impotent in the face of bigoted and conservative fundamentalism - the real Islam.

By the way Yvonne - love your post!

Yvonne, get a grip dear. Keep those nickers unknotted please.

Try reading what is going on in this thread. It's not racism, it's religious intolerance. Amply displayed by Irfan's own venom poured out against Mary, Jesus and Joseph. Three more deserving people of the world's hatred? Surely not, except if you don't like their beliefs or life practices. Tolerance, acceptance and love. What nasty people they must have been. I suppose Irfan or other Islamic extremists would translate those practices as " Ignorance, hatred and free sex"..

It's not racist to despise religious zealots Yvonne. It's the intolerance of others beliefs that is the problem here, not racism. That's the easy media wise dog whistle so many use to try and change the point of attack. Keep whistling Yvonne. Your reliious beliefs by the way?

Hi Betty, I think Irfan's comment about Jesus Mary and Joseph was intended ironically, just like your own "what nasty people they must have been".

Cheers!

Betty I am not a Muslim , or a Christian infact I have no superstition at all or religion as the politically correct word for superstition is. I have no fear of Jesus, to me Jesus is no different than Harry Potter. I recognise the character of Jesus of the new testament is immoral as he spouts and preaches exclusionism. You cannot deny that , all non Christians go to hell as far as Christians are concerned. To say that the crimes of Christianity are only historic are defunct on a number of levels. Twenty year old Neo Nazis did not partake in the Holocaust or set up the vatican but they accept the philosophy which led to that. Besides Christians still call for witch burning and theocracies. As far as the crimes of the past they are not over. The lives of homosexuals have been attacked through banning gay marriage, Womens rights over their own bodies have been under attack by an anti abortion lobby. Children are exploited under brainwashing regimes such as teaching them the unproven existence of god and intelligent design.

Sure Islam is a bit of a demon but it is not alone , Christianity is a demon too. There is no difference between the two. Im certain if Sept 11 never occured those in the growing ranks of the bible belt of Timothy MC Veighs Ilke would have continued their program against democracy and against the U.S government. The U.S has probably unwittingly postponed the road to their own civil war with its Christian community by shipping off the war monger to Iraq.

There are no grounds on which a Christian can judge a Moslem and visa versa.

Dear Betty, Boaz and others like you,

There are tens of millions of ordinary practicing muslims on this Earth, as there are Christians. There are many people converting to Islam. Especially in the USA. What would attract these people to this religion? It is irrational to suggest the majority just want to have a justification to commit violence.

Unlike many of you I grew up where I, as a white Christian woman, was a minority member of society. Through childhood and teenage years to adulthood and dangerous tumultuous transistion to independence.

I can categorically assure you that a Muslim household is as unusual as say a Catholic one. Parents and children have the same arguments, in-laws can be as trying, husbands as sloppy, but less likely to chundering drunks, a new baby causes the same excitement and anxiety. People who happen to be muslim are not alien.

The rabid portrayal of Muslims and the religion of Islam I read here I do not recognize. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all capable of giving support to hideous violence. Violence is violence. You are going to be as dead whether it is caused by a Christian thug or a muslim thug.

It is not the religion of Islam that is the problem. It is the battle for power and domination, some use Islam, some Christianity, some use self-defence or historical claim for territory, some don't need an excuse at all and are powerful enough to wipe out tens of thousands of men, women and children. Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan, recently come to mind.

So please, get of the easy band wagon of blaming a people or a religion and if we just annihilate that we'll be OK. That's the excuse the Nazi's used very successfully to galvanize an entire population, that's the excuse terrorists use. The terrorists are not the representatives of a people. They are self-appointed dangerous thugs. Like the Mafia or the Baader-Meinhof Group, or the IRA, or Pol Pot, the list is endless really.

West: There is NO ever-burning hideously torturous hell fire - it just doesn't exist, except in many "loving?" Christian Churches. NO ONE whether he/she at present is atheist, pagan, homosexual, murderer will be punished for all eternity absolutely NO-ONE! As I have said in another forum Christ Jesus, whether you like Him or believe in Him, is the Saviour of ALL mankind so if only one person does not make it then this title is a lie. Regards, numbat