coach, you might like to read ths ...

http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1857_0_25_0_C

A fascinating link Irfan... it's a shame it's difficult to create a vocal movement based on the acknowledgment of complexity over simplicity.
Much easier to rally the ignorant to a cause that serves your purposes, be that cause a caliphate or muslim bashing in the lead up to an election.

Great link Irfan.

I thought the comments below the article said more than the article itself. Very interesting commentary on the understanding of Islam by Muslims.

Thanks for the link Irfan.

Islamists (and therefore all Muslims) assume that Islam IS the right religion 'din' from God.

I am yet to be convinced, my reasons for that is the many flagrant contradictions (it) has with the prophetic and historical events of the Bible.

The Islamic doctrines of “sin” and “salvation” for example are contrary to the Bible. Allah causes people to sin, i.e. is the source of evil, and choose who enters paradise.

The most pious Muslim has NO Guarantee to see heaven. It’s all Insha’Allah… god willing.

The God that I know is all pure and detests sin and cannot accept sin to enter heaven. Islam says if your good deeds surpass your bad ones you “might” enter – but first you shall go to Hell and work your way up to heaven walking on a hair-thin bridge. Yet another impossible hurdle for the self-saving Muslim soul. How can Allah be a merciful god?

The God of the Bible offers a Guarantee of salvation - here and now - NOT maybe in the thereafter.

This is the point of contention between the One True God and the dualistic (good and evil) god of Islam.

Then we have the prophet Mohammad, with wrong CV applying for Biblical prophethood...

The Qur’an contains too many imperfections therefor cannot be the immutable word from God.

How can I trust a false religion to take part in the running of my or any country? Islam has not the moral DNA makeup to envisage any policy making of any non-Islamic regime.

If Islam cannot provide the basic moral right or wrong, (Allah causes man to sin = man does not take responsibility for his actions = utter predestination) how could it safeguard social values?

So do you see where I come from?

I am not making up stories just to have a go at Islam bashing – these are deep intrinsic differences that cannot co-exist with liberal (Christian) based democracies.

Irfan - a well written article.

I think the wider public are not only concerned about the potential extremist religious groups but also at times the lack of moderate counterweights to such.

Let's face it, mass society can be quite impressionable, rather ignorant and narrow-minded. Without massive steps in education that is unlikely to ever change. History has clearly displayed how the actions of a few can tarnish the appearance of the many in the eyes of the vast.

So for communities such as the Australian muslim one which appears to have a handful of spokespeople with extremist views, where are those moderate ones shouting their differing views from the rooftops? If I was part of such a community I doubt I'd tolerate being painted by the brushes of Al-Hilaly or a sensationalising media.

**Cue CJ Morgan's accusations of me simply being an Islamaphobe unwilling to encourage the engagement in productive dialogue with people of contrasting beliefs**

" Dr Ameer Ali is calling for Govt resources to combat Hizb ut- Tahrir"
Well Irfan ,if the so called moderate Muslim Majority weren't so scared of the extremists and actually showed some courage,there would not be the necessity for Govt funding to prop up these invertebrates who seemingly cannot speak for themselves.

At every turn,we see people like yourself explaining or opologising for some Muslim indiscretion.

When Muslims actually protest in the streets on masse about the extremists in their fold,then we will begin to trust them.

Until then ,don't expect understanding or compassion.Your Muslim community is not trying hard enough to gain both the trust and respect of this great nation which has welcomed Muslims on the basis of tolerance and open minds.

Our patience is wearing thin and crying racism or victim status just falls on deaf ears.