I believe both groups pose a threat to our society, especially the Exclusive Brethren, and any of either group that can be deported should be. As JWH once said "we will decide who comes here and the circumstances under which they come"so apparently the Howard Government thinks it's in the national interest to have radical fanatical groups join our already complex society, thanks Johnny.

Indeed, they are dangerously extreme. The government must immediately ban Hizb ut-Tahrir for the safety of Australia.

See Nemesis-http://www.con.observationdeck.org

Irf.. the only problem with the moderates offering themselves as an alternative to Hizb is that Hizb and company will point to this or that Quran verse or historical event and in particular the things happening to Muslims in lands of conflict, and the old faithful the 'Palestinian issue' and use the 'you are bad Muslims if you don't become more vocal and struggle more' ploy to encourage them into deeper and more fanatical committment.

Sheikh faiz certainly has not helped discourage that direction.

So, I think its a lost cause to expect the moderates to win the hearts and minds campaign with idealistic youth.

I am still reeling from the scene in Regents Park mosque in London, where radicals came in and berated everyone for not being better muslims, promising Islam will rule in the UK whether people liked it or not, and telling the Government minister 'how dare he' set foot on 'Muslim territory'......

I wish you all the best, but cannot see much progress being made there.

Irfan Yusuf

"In what manner can HT empower young Australian Muslims to change the situation? HT teaches that active involvement in democratic politics represents a fundamental breach of the sacred law. Democracy and secularism are declared un-Islamic, voting is forbidden and membership of secular political parties regarded as virtual apostasy. HT insists Muslims work outside the system and re-invent a more "Islamic" wheel, an approach seen by the well-integrated majority of Muslims as an exercise in futility."

So, if or when it is no longer seen as futile this well-integrated majority of Muslims will what? Rush to join HT. And at that moment the rest of Australia can begin to worry? Like if the Howard government doesn't continue to pay the jizya. What's the latest bribe of appeasement. $38 million?

Hizb ut-Tahrir is just one more in a list of anti-Australian, anti-integration, hateful rhetoric coming from a particular segment of Australian Muslim society that is not being vocally refuted by that well-integrated majority. Really Sir. All the majority of non-Muslim Australians want to hear from the Muslim community is a refutation of the hateful Anti-Australian cultural rhetoric, and more scrutiny in choosing their leadership. The al- Hilali types are not appropriate leaders at any time.

I have read the Hizb Al-Tahrir al-Islami constitution:

http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm

I found nothing un-Islamic or radical in there – it’s all Islam 101.

This Islamic group is more organised and more focused than the other hundreds floating around. HT is not new - but has resurfaced lately because of their Global Khalifate Conference in Sydney on Australia Day Weekend.

They are simply putting the words of the Qur'an and Traditions (Hadiths) into a more disciplined Leninist fashion. A simple call to reorganise Islam under one Global Leadership. Nothing wrong with that.

If we have to ban an Islamic group for simply expressing their basic Islamic views and Islamiv aspirations, trying to apply the tenets of Islam, we must seriously consider exposing and banning Islam itself.

That is why intelligent governments like UK and OZ did not ban HT (just yet) because they are not more radical or more dangerous than other Islamic groups - as the Media depicted them - HT has not deviated from main stream Islam, HT is just a well defined vocal Islamic group.

To outlaw Hizb Al-Tahrir equals to outlaw Islam itself – pure and simple.

Have we all forgotten about the Exclusive Brethren people, and gone straight for a Muslim attack, the Brethren are close to the Liberal Party is this why nobody is mentioning them.

Some lunatic right religious group is at the moment hijacking the NSW Branch of the party, I have seen the name David Clarke mentioned in connection with this, any relationship?

Both groups should be closely monitored by A.S.I.O. and deported if they become too un-American, sorry I mean un-Australian.