PERICLES... now ur worrying me.. you seem to be devoid of fundamental grasp of literary works ?

1/ I have NEVER said "any" Bible text should be interpreted metaphorically. I've shown SOME which have to be, and OTHERS which are quite straight forward and literal.

2/ Your ducking and weaving on the hadith heading/conclusion makes me wonder if your first language is English after all ?

It is simply not feasable to take a given conclusion/heading/statement/declaration in an Islamic document which by all the rules of basic communication have a clear and unmistakable message and THEN... to wander off on some avoidance pathway as you did.

Islamic law is based on the Hadith ..probably MORE than the Quran, which has very little by way of 'legal' content. (my source is
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/I_Transp/IO8_MuslimLaw.html under the heading 'Roots of Law'.)

Now..perhaps you should read THAT document and then do some serious re-thinking about this whole issue. It is abundantly clear that I am speaking with the same voice and the Islamic academics re the Hadith, yet you and F.H. seem to have formed some "club of mutual ignorance" based on heavens knows what ?

If you want to know about your cars power steering, you goto the manaul and read under the heading POWER STEERING.. if you want to know about the Islamic attitude to
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/
that page, and you will see (if ur eyes are open) that all the hadith are GROUPED according to the particular legal area of actual Islamic Custom they are supporting.

Call it whatever you like, but don't call it metaphorical. That would be obstinate refusal to recognize truth.

F_H and others you ask us to be nice to islamics, trust islamics, bend over backwards to placate islamics. Pray tell us what other so-called religion allows/commands its adherents to lie to those seen as their enemies? - It is called 'taqiyya' as well 'hudna' is commanded this is a temporary truce (though enemies are not told that the truce is only temporary) to allow moslems to gather strength so they can once more attack. Of course these same writings show "the faithful?" that the enemies are pigs (Jews) and monkeys (Christians).
What Church in Australia attacks moslems? What Church attacks democracy? What Church attacks the Australian way of life? What Church wants to inaugurate the chopping off of hands and feet have public hangings and stonings? What Church stones a female who has been gang raped as a adulteress? What Church advocates the despicable (DIS) honour killings? Well no decent Church at all but moslems do and all of the above occurs in islamic nations continually and you ask us to believe that moslems in Oz are any different further more you demand that we trust you. We see daily the mindless, barbaric bloody atrocities happening constantly in islamic nations and you wonder why we do not trust you - as I see it you are either fools or liars. Try just once to read and see the news through normal decent Christian eyes. Regards, numbat

Okay, let's take a closer look.

>>I have NEVER said "any" Bible text should be interpreted metaphorically. I've shown SOME which have to be, and OTHERS which are quite straight forward and literal.<<

If you would be so kind as to point me to a post in which you argue that a relevant (i.e. instructional, advisory, admonitory) part of the Bible should be taken literally, I would be grateful, as I cannot recall any.

However, it is also significant that you didn't go on to say "... and I have done the same for the Qu'ran".

Nevertheless, to be fair, I might have simply overlooked it. So if you have in fact posted somewhere that "of course, I am not taking this quotation from the Qu'ran literally", I'd appreciate a reference to that also.

Otherwise, my observations stand.

Not only do they stand, but they will have highlighted yet another area where you are being economical - if not downright miserly - with the truth.

The point is not whether you are, in your own lights, "right" about one particular translation or another, Boaz. Simply that your selection criteria appear to be "does this place Islam in a bad light?". If it does, you print it, if it doesn't you don't.

Or am I wrong there too?

Perhaps while you are grubbing around for examples of the first two, you can direct me to examples of the third - where you select quotations that show Islam to be compassionate, caring and responsible.

That's just three little examples, Boaz, and you have over three thousand posts to find them.

But I'm not sure you can do it.

I'm betting one out of three, tops.

Pericles, I’ve already prepared this response, so I cannot yet address your points in that last post.
in Summary, I address real and literal aspects of the Quran/Hadith because they totally counter any hint of good. Surah 23:5-6 “Literal” one of a number of commands regarding the ‘believers’. Hadith Muslim book 1 number 30 “statement_of_fact”

F.H. (and your supportive (paid?) assistant, Pericles)

You seem to be at variance with the Islam that most of the world knows mate. With all due respect, you either take me and the rest of your reading audience for fools, or without fingers which enable us to use a keyboard and type the words “hadith in Islamic Jurisprudence” into Dr Google.
It returns significant results which without question support my contentions rather than yours.

FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION.

Your claim “99% of Muslims don’t believe the hadith” REALLY ? Well... we all heard it here first.

I suggest you and Pericles both read for one simple example this site.
http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/I_Transp/IO8_MuslimLaw.html

Where it is clearly stated that the Hadith are divided into the following categories.

1/ Sahih.. (reliable) and are considered NOT to be at variance with the Quran.

Main criterion of authenticity: Accuracy of "chain of tradition," Isnad" ("certification").

Narrators were evaluated for their trustworthiness.

Afterwards the hadiths were judged according to their content (e.g., whether they conformed to the Qur'an, or were logically plausible.
Hadith traditions were classified as
- sound (sahih)
- good (hasan)
- weak (daif)

From the INTRODUCTION to Hadith Muslim.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/smtintro.html

[Each report in his collection was checked for compatibility with the Qur'an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established. Muslim's collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).]

F.H. exactly HOW much of the Muslim world accept these ? From the above “the Overwhelming Majority” Perhaps, just perhaps THAT is why I use/refer to them ? err..which planet Islam are you on mate ?

The major excuses for radicalism are Iraq, Afghanistan and Chechnya. Not my writing.

Boaz,

Are you so used to twisting words:

You said 'FH claims 99% of Muslims don't believe the hadith'

Thats not what I said. Re-read my post: I said '99% of Muslims don't know or use 95% of the hadith'.

Anyway, seems you have a 'fundi' position and you are determined to be part of the problem.

There is something very wrong with a bunch of people pouring venom against others yet claim to be the followers of a tolerant religion.

Something isn't adding up.

Boaz, this is a credibility issue.

Just three examples, please.

One of your posts in which you argue that a relevant (i.e. instructional, advisory, admonitory) part of the Bible should be taken literally.

One of your posts in which you argue that a relevant (i.e. instructional, advisory, admonitory) part of the Qu'ran should be taken metaphorically.

One of your posts where you select quotations that show Islam to be compassionate, caring and responsible.

Otherwise, your constant protestations that you are not a rabble-rouser, but simply a concerned soul outlining some historical issues about Islam, dissolves into the hot air that it is.

Incidentally, you have stooped to a new low - no mean feat - with your note to FH -

"F.H. (and your supportive (paid?) assistant, Pericles)"

Paid assistant, Boaz?

Your paranoia clearly has no bounds, along with your lack of courtesy.