Pericles,

It was quite clear to me from the start you don't see the wood for the trees.

Worse, you do not even come across to being a tolerant person, yet presumptuously lecture others about tolerance, consciously or otherwise, putting yourself on a pedestal of high moral.

I do loathe hypocrisy!

Your questioning me whether I implied "turn the other cheek" is love..etc... You are way off the mark. Indications are that your misunderstanding of my arguments is nearly complete, which speaks volume about your intellect. Even your remark unintentionally admitted this likelihood: "... danger of over-intellectualizing..."

Listen up! There is never a problem with intellectualizing. What is also needed is an ability make the right judgement and that's intelligence and wisdom.

Please if you will, carefully re-read all recent posts addressed to you, appreciate their point of views with an 'open-mind', then answer my next question:

--> What do you understand by being open-minded?

Until you have done so, I am convinced a debate on tolerance with you is a waste of time, ( other than possibly being educational for everybody else).

Pericles: You are hardly worth debating with, which is a pity. You apparently do not read newspapers and you have never read the murderous, lying, convoluted koran.
To believers re Judas. Judas had unspeakable self torture which ended in suicide so the words of Christ Jesus were fulfilled. BUT Judas will be resurrected to eternal life. It was for-ordained what he did yes he could have immediately repented to Christ Jesus he didn't though he was remorseful enough to take his life. He, Pericles, irfan and ALL on this forum and the entire human race will be resurrected and all will WILLINGLY acknowledge Christ Jesus - That's the GOOD NEWS Christ Jesus is the Saviour of all mankind. Regards, numbat

Pericles,

You say that Islam should not be "my business".

Like I mentioned before Islam is directly targeting all non-Muslims but specifically Christians and Jews. Islam has made it their business to eliminate or convert us all by force if need be. If not become second class citizens when they declare Australia an Islamic State.

Secondly, as Christians we are called, no make that commanded to reach out to the lost and tell them "in love" the good news of their salvation in Christ Jesus. We are to be the salt and the light to this world.

We cannot simply live and let die...

Thirdly, Islam is a one-package multi-threat, the political, social, cultural, religious, legal,… is all intermingled, it is inseparable and unchangeable.

Why a threat you may ask – because it is contrary to all other universal values – but more so, Islam wants “others” to change our ways to accommodate its people and not the other way around. (I guess you knew that too).

So the six-foot tall neighbour dumping his garbage on your front lawn, is now asking you to learn to enjoy the smell and get used to it – or he (and his friends) will make sure you changed your mind.

This parable is what Islam sadly is. It changes the landscape of a country until it is sufficiently established and can reign over all people in “peace”.

So unless you are not part of this planet, I cannot reconcile how you could so naively play the devil’s advocate (punt intended) or simply remain neutral in such alarming circumstances?

Finally, when someone threatens to convert you and your children, gazump your political system, abrogate your laws, change your social habits forever, etc… – you don’t walk away – you react

Christianity was once a threat to others - attacks on other religions, the Crusades, the Inquisition, Auto de fes, colonial attitudes, really awful but it reformed and became a tolerant faith and a supporter of the downtrodden, even a supporter of other faiths.

Perhaps Islam will and even is already going through the same reforms. Let's lend support reform Muslims as much as we can.

LOGIC...no, not at all.. Christianity did not reform... people who professed it, simply came back closer to its ROOTS :)
Christianity as a faith, has never been any threat to anyone except on the area of confronting them with the reality of Christ Jesus as Messiah, and proclaiming 'repentance and forgiveness' in His name.
'Proclaiming, persuading, presenting... not 'fighting'.

CHRISTIAN ROOTS. (Mark 7:7ff)

Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them authority over evil[b] spirits.
8These were his instructions: "Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. 9Wear sandals but not an extra tunic. 10Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you leave that town. 11And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them."
12They went out and preached that people should repent. 13They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

MUSLIM ROOTS.

Hadith Muslim Book 001, Number 0031:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to FIGHT against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord)

COMMENT: do I really need to make one ? These 2 contrasting expressions of faith foundations are self evidently as different as the East is from the West. One is peaceful, offering a choice, the other is violent giving no choice.

JESUS "As the Father has sent me, so I send you" in the same attitude, manner, mode.
Simple living, Sincere faith, Love.. to serve, not to be served, to wash the feet of followers, not lord it over them or killing them if they insult you.

(Irrelevant quote: All work and no play makes one the wealthiest man in the cemetery. )

Boaz,

Sounds like you are always gambling on naive audience.
Islam got only one Holybook. Many of the hadith you are referring to was inplanted by honest missionaries like yourself. Hadith was collected 2-3 centuries after the prophet's death and in fact against his will (as you well know).

The problem with your theory re christianity is not Jesus teachings but the biblical open authority to popes and men of religion to decide what the faith is. Hence you get popes like Urban and blood atonement and crap like that.

Perhaps you should explain if your faith is so peaceful and lovy dovy, how come a 94% christian majority country like Rwanda, slaughtered 800,000 non christian 'infidels' just a decade ago.

Keep up the BS.

Coach / GZ Tan and other esteemed members of the 'fellowship of the ring':

Apologies if my posting re Deedat put salt on the wound but I was giving Boaz an experience of what it feels like to attack someone else faith. Hope you can forgive the little misapp.

Peace,

T