The question was about being constrained by biology. Not who sent who off to war.

Firstly I do not claim to be a historian.

Now I'll play.

Now there was Victoria, Elizabeth and Thatcher as far as I know 2 out of the three have sent men to war. So that is 66% of female rulers of England who have sent men to war. Compare that, to the percentage of male rulers who sent men to war.

Now a while ago I remembered a story about a man being sent a white feather and then joining up. So I did an internet search on "white feather."

During WW1 Admirald Fitzgerald founded the order of the White Feather, to enlist women into the crusade to 'encourage' recalitant men into becoming cannon fodder.

Even in Australia I understand men were sent or given "white feathers."

Apparently the tactic of shaming men into joining the armed services had been used in the past.

So even though more male rulers have sent men to war, women actually were involved in 'encouraging' men to join up.

Cornflower, I take offense at your latest post grouping all women together in your argument. I do not categorise myself as a 'feminist' but I do hold some strongly held beliefs that are labelled by some as feminist and I do not support your assertions. I would also like to go out on a limb and comment that some of the men that are posting on this thread appear to have had some very bad experiences with women that have tainted their viewpoint of all women and then blame it all on the feminist movement. I would also like to point out that not all women villify their exes, I have made a concerted effort to keep on friendly terms with mine for the sake of the children and for all concerned. I thought that I was doing a good job until he found another woman who objected to me having any contact with him at all. Rather than blame the woman, my children and I are bewildered that he can allow someone he has known for only a short time dictate the terms of their relationship. Perhaps what I am saying is all you men out there who hate women and blame them and feminism for all the wrongs in the world, perhaps you should look very carefully at your own decisions when you choose women who do the dirty on you.

I am not arguing women are naturally less aggressive or violent than men, I am arguing there has been far, far, far less of them in positions of power that made them able to express their violence or aggression on a mass scale, the way some men have been able to.
(Victoria doesn't count JamesH, she was a constitutional monarch and merely rubber stamped her governments (in an age where women could not vote) decisions to go to war. Elizabeth 1 (Tudor) does count because she was an absolute monarch and had the same power as her male counterparts. Indeed, her sister was called Bloody Mary due to her tendency to burn protestants, so I do not exclude women from natural human aggression, but I do argue that their relative lack of political power - at least until very recently - makes it rather extraordinary to try to shove the blame for war onto women.
I agree with Lizzie 4 that some of the posters on this thread make extreme statements about the supposed nature of women (something about the nature of women sending men off to war, was one, I think) that if said by a woman about men would send the same people into orbit, Imagine if I said (which I never have) that there is something about the nature of men that makes them enjoy hitting their wives, for example? People are people, neither wholly good nor wholly bad, whether male or female.

For all the girls,

If political women was really about equality, we wouldn't be having these discussions. We'd be working together to resolve issues of mankind and not focused on womans perceptual issues of self worth. If feminism was about any thing more than women acquiring power over men, relationships between men and women would be far more harmonious. It's time women stopped looking back for justification and began to take responsibility for their collective actions today and for the situations they manufacture when relating to men. Yes, men are bad, evil, nasty creatures but, contrary to the fable, women are not sugar and spice, and everything nice. Finger pointing is not going to lead to any resolution of any perceived injustice between the sexes.
And girls. life is a bit like golf. The forward momentum to drive the ball out over the fairway is collected during the back swing. Beware of the back swing inherent in feminism. Put the breaks on feminist empowerment and concentrate on honest equality and responsibility. The pendulum swings and like my Granny always said," Laughing always comes to crying."
This is my last post for this thread. Keep well. If I was to meet you on the street I'd have a big hug for ya. Well, not if that's sexual assault. :-)

Peace

Very easy to play this game.

Behind every man is a woman. As the dutch say, two women... his wife and his mother.

Mothers have ULTIMATE power over their sons.

Day care, creche, kinda, primary school, baby sitters... female dominated. These are positions of enormous power and influence. Ultimately women are responsible for the formative and ongoing socialisation of males, implictly responsible for everything a man ever did/does. Woe behold the poor woman who spawns a genocidal maniac.

Thus... mothers are ultimately to blame for everything their sons did/didnt/will/wont do.

Rubbish, like the opposite position spawning this line.

Maybe everything men and women do is to curry the favour of each other.

Going to war to secure resources and kill the competition is about making oneself useful (attractive) to women. Formenting mens aggressively acquisitive and paradoxically, destructive tendencies. Passing on, developing/exaggerating that tendency by mating this type of male, until it becomes a dominant trait.

Same idea in reverse, men select women against self reliance and physical stature... the competition makes him practically redundant. Further, his ego desires an image of woman, the idealised opposite of himself (dainty, pure, innocent, moral, weak, blah). Helpful for women to play to this illusion, maintaining/advancing their indirect power. Woman as the 'weaker/emotional/irrational/morally superior sex' = very useful ruse, behind which to wield extensive influence/power.

When men try to discuss how we too face much crap in this life, it is a two-fold appeal. Will you empathise, will you give and not take? (making it about about yourselves, passively/aggressively blaming men for their hardships).

Competing interests... NO ONE CARES about the other side.

Unfortunately, NOT CARING, is how it is these daze.

Reciprocal uncaring is the basic fuel of this pontless battle.

We shape behaviour to attract each other... survival instinct. Evolving in the projected image of one another. Behaviour is self serving, in the pursuit of each other, providing what the other needs/wants, with the delusions this symbiosis spawns.

Its no ones elses fault.

Until this basic truth is recognised we arent gonna get anywhere.

But it'll be fun argueing about it.

:-)

Ena and Romany,

I have written that human behaviour is very complex and it is true that not all members of the same gender will share the same political views or even the same life experiences.

"I agree with Lizzie 4 that some of the posters on this thread make extreme statements about the supposed nature of women."

In the past extreme statements have been and are still being made about men.

When we look back at history we are interpreting history from our viewpoint now and we read what others have written and their interpretation of events.

aqvarivs is right.

"If political women was really about equality, we wouldn't be having these discussions. We'd be working together to resolve issues of mankind."

No it's not nice feeling having your gender vilified. However this is a debate we need to have.

I think that women and women's groups are in some ways streets ahead in that you have already developed the language to express the issues that are seen to be important.

Men in general on the over hand have not by and large had the forum where issues, ideas etc can be explored.

Me, for example; for a long time I thought I was the only bloke who felt that some of the claims made by feminists did not feel right. Lo and behold thre are many men who feel the same way.