At last, something resembling half-way forthright concerning this, from a mainstream politician. I share the frustration of Chris Shaw and others and well-recall the treachery of Mark Bishop and others, as to the MCarthyism of "anti-americanism" thrown at Crean, Latham and a handful of others trying to warn the public four years ago.
Feel compelled to comment on Arjay's misleading, scurrilous statement concerning the mid east states not being willing to take on "democracy" because it comes at the expense of Islam.
Middle eastern countries for generations tried to implement democratic government, but needless interference of the sort that overthrew Mossadeq in Iran in 1953, involving Britain and the CIA, for example, demonstrates why the mid east finally lost faith in us and embraced an ideological Islam, to define their own threatened identity, out of frustration with us and our incessant and perverse neo colonialism.

In such debates I find myself in trouble always, I am not far right, anti far left and in fact entrenched in the centre of the ALP.
Yet that honesty demands that I say in the start of the Iraq war I was for it.
Openly held hopes for a free self governing Iraq, did not want its oil, money or even its leaders life.
I was wrong.
It never could be done, never should have been done and we had been told lies by our goverment and American.
America, still the hope of the free world in my view must learn very fast the art of talking to other people.
We are faced with the reality that the world is a worse place because too many of us thought as I did and supported this tragic waste of life.
End part one

Iraq has been a turning point in history the extremly poor handeling of the war has seen another lost war and it gets worse daily.
The anti war at any cost left will not agree but we are bound for a far bigger war as a result of this loss.
Our best hope is that Bush will not be conducting it .who will however?
The 2008 American election is far from over ,once again Democratic voters may see the wrong candidate beat them not the Repblicans.
Clinton should not be the candedate America should draft its last Democrate vs Presedent.
The world needs to see a more saleable America.
And America needs time to look back on Iraq and ask why the lies? why the cover ups? why the miss management?
And why did Americans act as bad as Nazis EVER DID IN SOME CASES?

Why are we in Iraq?

- because we have no choice!

Big Brother commanded us to join him there, and as dependent slaves we must follow his dictates and pay our taxes to Caesar (which are fortunately lower than what other nations had to pay). Any other reasoning, moral or practical, for or against, is futile.

To be free of our crippling dependency on the USA is a hard and long-term project: it cannot happen overnight or even in one year, so by then, even if we struggle in earnest to be free, Iraq-war will be history anyway. The Howard government has consistently gone the opposite way, probably due to Howard's personal ordeal in 9/11 when he was stuck in New-York and finally released by a special American military plane. Since then he signed the FTA with America, so now that we are more tangled, it is ever so hard to shake-off all those webs and the sacrifices we will need to make to break our chains are dearer.

Let us deal with the root cause, rather than the symptom.

There a long history of exploitation by Europe and the USA in Iran and Iraq. Saddam was an American creation and they were happy with the service until he threatened their oil supply. He was speedily murdered to distract from the USA and Britians complicity in his actions. Perhaps if you treat people like feces they are correct to see you as a rectum. It is up to US and Europe to prove their bonafides of Iraq and Iran.

Belly: "The anti war at any cost left will not agree but we are bound for a far bigger war as a result of this loss."

Actually Belly, I'd say the anti-war left would partially agree with this.

The war in Iraq has removed that nation as a counterweight to the aspirations of Iran. It is also leading to the creation of a failed state where Al Qaeda can operate with impunity.

Whether another half baked war, this time with Iran, is the answer however, I'm not sure. If the first one was so fundamentally screwed up, I don't see how a second one, launched from a position of weakness rather than strength, will do any better.