To little to late Lindsay, the Labor Party should have exposed the Iraq war for what it really is 4 years ago, an oil war.

I do not understand surely we of the West replete in our wisdom have shown the way to these poor people formerly ruled by a bloody tyrant?
Gratitude to the victor is always slow in coming, those keening women with lost sons bedevill the pictuire made admittedly vague by lack of electricity and spoiled by the sewer smells.
Still people of good will go to Church or at least support the precepts of the UN Charter,except Mr downer still playing Colonial catch up,but as a learner he can be forgiven, so with such ethical correctness we can be satisfied.
Johnny is in his place to the right of God so I ask what is this all about? Realist foreign policy and foreign medals on display.
No criminality has been brought to the ICC. The deputy sheriff deals with the ignorant of our world. All is well.
Surely? or should this be !

Pericles, I agree with you that something should be done: get the hell out of there. Now. Don't worry about (actually only two of) the three factions getting on with killing each other if the Coalition of the willing troops pull out. That's happening already, with the US puppet Iraqi government almost openly siding with the Shia while the US effectively looks the other way, or si helpless to act effectively, whichever. It seems US policy may be complicity or ineffectiveness in the face of an attempt by the Iraqui-government backed Shai death squads to eviscerate the Sunnis. If so, what a sorry excuse for a strategy. And what a fertile breeding ground for terrorists on both sides.

The Sunnis perhaps are seen as expendable, a punishment for supporting Saddam. Their 'territory' contains no oil, unlike that of the Kurds and the Shia, and any territorial division is likely to leave the Sunnis as sore losers. Better to wipe them out, maybe the thinking goes.

But Bush and his war criminal cronies will not pull out without a figleaf of dignity. I believe they are working on a secret plan to hand over to a coalition of Muslim/Arab states, if they can find enough willing (or greedy) stooges. Iran is one fly in the ointment with that. That, and the fact that the Arabs are likely to require that the US cut Israel loose in return for getting the US off the hook in Iraq. Can any US President make that huge political sacrifice?

So, Pericles, got any simple solutions yourself?

For those who are struggling with the question: why are we in Iraq?

This link will take you to a fairly complete analysis including the machinations of the UN security council and that of other countries with an invested interest in Iraq. Notably, France and Russia.

The blame America crowd will find loads of ammunition as long as they continue to discount the workings of other nations and political agendas in the matter of Iraq or any other dealings with in the UN.

Mr. Tanner's "clean hands" is a excellent excuse to do nothing. Who after thousands of years of history has clean hands.

War and profit are synonymous. Every war since the dawn of man can show profit to one side or the other, and many wars have been of greater profit to the looser. Japan has never been in such a condition of profit as it has since it's loss during WWII.

Iraq could profit hugely with it's democracy if it ever gets off the ground. The Iraqis know this best. Part of this ongoing sectarian violence is to determine who will profit more. Sunni or Shia. The party who perceives themselves as loosing will not want democracy. Much better to reach the ignorant with anti democracy rhetoric considering one will have to pay their deciples with money. Even an idiot can see it's contradictory to say, "here is some money, now go protest vile money.

My apologies. Here is that link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Iraq_War

This link will take you to a template where you can choose to read from the beginning or select a particular point in time.

Lindsay,it was always about the oil.The Middle East owns 65% of the vital energy we use.Without the oil we all starve.The Middle East is not like Germany or Japan thet can be reasoned with.The US gave democracy to Japan and Germany who have no oil,yet have a history of learning and scientific discovery.Germany and Japan became economic power houses without oil,while Muslims languish in poverty with oil wealth.

The Muslims will not accept democracy since it undermines their religion,as they have witnessed with the Christian Church in the West.Basically they are feral societies who have been granted Western wealth and don't know how to progress to the next stage of their evolution,since it conflicts with their religious beliefs.

If the US was not in the Middle East,Muslim Nations could form cartels and dictate to us the price of our freedoms.In other words Lindsay,we would now be experiencing World War Three if the US was not being the moderating influence there.China,Japan,India or Europe cannot afford to be starved of energy.

It is all about keeping Muslim Nations divided so they cannot hold the rest of the world to ransom.Saddham was an American generated dictator to help keep the Muslim world divided,thus ensuring that oil was available to the rest of the world at competitive prices.

If you and the Labor Party have not worked this out by now,then I really fear for this country's future if ever your party holds the reins of power in the near future.