BB Part Two

One of the worse things the former colonial nations still try and do, especially in the ME, is to leave armies of occupation. As bin Laden said over five years ago, that his main resentment was based on America using Saudi-Arabia as a hegemonic military base for US forces.

Surely it is about time both the US and Britain let ME nations work out their own destinies rather than setting up some sort of Ersatz democracy that still needs Western overview, as well as the presence of foreign military forces.

Yes, as well as getting honours studying problems like the above, Aqvarious, admittedly I did learn the rudiments of both Marxism and Fascism, the second possibly the most dangerous these days, because like Nazism it still allows for corporatism, which with problems we are so over-concerned with as in the Middle East, can cause over-eager leaders to keep on making autocratic decisions despite low-level popularity, with democracy pretty well pitched out the window, as happened so much with Richard Nixon.

Marxism also certainly does have its anti-war philosophies, as Marx himself taught, and even as Lech Lewelska of Poland and Gorbachev helped de-Communise much of Eastern Europe, easing the change to democracy and bringing a peaceful conclusion to the Cold War. The former Soviets were even allowed to keep their atomic artillery.

Could recommend some interesting books on the above, Aqvarious, as well as on big power and corporate ethics. Certainly a big problem for both the US and Britain, was so evident in Iraq when we saw companies like Exxon and BP pretty well moving in behind the invading troops.

For such an important unipolar nation like America to allow corporates to more than half run its power politics, looks somewhat shoddy, especially as the vice President Dick Cheney has oil company connections.

Regards - George C - WA

The Trap of Perception (Part 1)

OK aqvarivs. Truce.

I think what makes us cranky is that we don't all have the same perception of the world. It's probably unfair to expect everyone to perceive the world in the same way (and it would be toooo boring). Nevertheless, there must be some measureable baseline for us to work from if we are to have a dialogue about this thing we call civilisation.

So let's trash perception - or try to shock it awake from the opiate of it's smugness - banish it from it's comfort zone.

1. The official conspiracy theory of 9-11 is a fabrication - and a grossly moronic and stupid one at that. The real perpetrators are still getting away with murder on a grand scale, while we twitter on with our little prognostications.

2. Oil energy, not money, makes the world go 'round.

3. There are not only too many mouths to feed, there are too many GREEDY mouths to feed. Big, big problem.

4. Left to their own devices, the people of the Middle East might have created a superior version of democracy to the rather friable one that satisfies yer average western consumer.

5. Their only crime was that they were unwilling to convert to the fundamentalist religion of Usurious-Loony-Consumerism. With so many hungry mouths to feed, they rightly did not want to sacrifice their only (oil) wealth to the greedy Usurious-Loony-Consumers. Even had they all been Christians, we would have found some other device to set the Middle Easterners apart and steal their wealth.

The Trap of Perception (Part 2)

6. One's race and religion is merely an accident of birth - no more and no less. One's inherited culture can just be so much baggage. Our folly is to assume that the baggage that we are burdened with is somehow superior to the other fellow's baggage. And we clutch that burden to our bosoms for comfort. And wear it like a burka with no eye-holes. And consequently we can be ignorant loons. Aussie-flag baseball cap anyone? Beachtowel? Stubby-cubby?

I guess I am trying to say that we are NOT special, and that all the things that have happened to the ME can happen here too. And I have grandkids.

"First they came for the Iraqis - and I did nothing."

Ring a bell?

That'll do. It's 11 pm and the cheap wine (4lt/$6.99) is starting to kick in - a bad move probably.

Cheers all....

bushbred

Aqvarious - There is still a saying that we do need America. As we said during WW2, but after feelings and statements of deep thankfulness, we were glad when they left.

Yes. ;-) and I understand the sentiment but, that in itself is a long way from hatred and misrepresentation of fact or history to vilify absolutely everything the Coalition or America is trying to do for the Iraqi people just because some one watched an American reporter attack his or her government and now spills that same vitriol as personal opinion for OLO debate. Let America attack Australia in the news and listen to the Aussie with his back up. Attacking America has become a pastime, a substitute for intellectual debate.

I have never said all was perfect. My contention is that it is not a finished project and to be determining it a success or failure is preemptive and unjust. Give the Iraqi people the time and opportunity.

"It is also so interesting that though the Americans had to quit Vietnam pretty well on the run, Vietnam is now using Western progressive economic ideas to plan for their future."

America didn't define the rules for the war of the Vietnam's. China and Russia did. Had Russia and China not promised to become overtly involved in that war the U.S. would have finished for the North as they almost did after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Also America and her soldiers spent a small fortune in South Vietnam during their tenure. Even an avid commie likes money. See Russia. See China.

People are a big problem. Me, you, them, all of us struggling to be. The friction, the crime, the errors of judgment. Our humanism if you like. To say this company or this corporation or this government or this nation is at the root of it all is unjust. It takes two to play.
As the kids say."Don't hate the player. Hate the game"

Our papers are full of home grown social injustice.
Of course we have those blaming America for that too.

Chris Shaw, Carisbrook 3464 The Trap of Perception

The only difference between man today and man who walked out of the developmental crucible that was Africa, is that that man today with his thinking, his emotions, now has nuclear weapons.

We as a world are at a crossroads of two realities or two perceptions. Give a nation the tools to compete among nations as an equal or give it aid moneys in perpetuity.

It's unreasonable to give aid let alone tools to a hostile government. Especially when that inept hostile government will not only subvert said aid or tools but, will not alter its countries management one whit.

Democracy is the only way to effect the changes necessary for an eventual world peace. Of course that's just my perception.

Aquarivs, thank you for the list. I am sure that not all the contracts were given as rewards for political compliance, but still we have public money spent for private profit. The ugly sisters as the oil companies were once called.
You are quite right that the US has created employment opportunities. Saddly many of these jobs will be in mending global warming and a generally stuffed environmnent. I am curious why do think that people should should ashamed of being anti American and is that the same as being Anti USA?
Democracy has prerequists without which it can not exist.
1. Open access to a wide range of opinions
2. A genuine ability of the elected government to deliver what its citizens ask.
On this basis should Iraq become a democracy it wil be the envy of the world.