Sorry bushbred I haven't had the luxury of your social marxist education. I don't collect headline news from CNN and adopt those as my opinion and I don't rely on the PC movement to verify my thinking.
Your Utopian feminist ideology doesn't work. You bleed for the world Muslims because of British colonialism and rant about American hegemony and say Islam today is because of western "interference".
And then when more than 150 companies embark for Iraq and Afghanistan to get those countries up and running and able to participate in the free world all you can do is be derisive. And blame them for the last 100 years of political mismanagement.

I'd like you to have your way. I'd like the US to go home and stay within their borders. I'd also like for them to keep their aid money at home to. Their world investments and all other associations. I'd like for you to have your world with out "anglo" influence. I'd watch with glee as all the good men stepped out of your world and left you to your own. But we both know that isn't going to happen so there's no consequences for your cultural hatred is there. Matey.

Ghandi: "If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest Gentile German might, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment." This is the advice he had for post war Jews.

Mandella: embarked on armed struggle, convinced that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had achieved nothing and could not succeed. Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, and attempts were made by his party to remove statements supporting this fact from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Sorry but your idealized perfection is flawed.

Pull the other one.

"....I haven't had the luxury of your social marxist education"

"Your Utopian feminist ideology doesn't work"

"....there's no consequences for your cultural hatred is there. Matey."

- pure Bolt-spin. Cute, but it doesn't butter any parsnips.

You may care to read about this mob of philanthropists:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/26/1559232

The Prez's Praetorian Guard. Privatisation of war raised to the n'th degree. You'll be hearing more of these fellers in the stoush with Iran.

There's a quick quid in this business aqvarivs. How sweet it is - to get loads of dough from someone else's misery, then return home to your calm and untroubled land. Maybe buy the kids a good education.

Makes you glad to be a white anglo-saxon, in these, the best of all possible times.

Aqvarivs, what a list. What's your point? ASX knowledge?

Why are we in I wrack? Cos George said we should be and the Prime Miniature saluted, pinned on his deputy sherrif's badge and sent young Australians, in this case our best troops, to a war which cannot change a thing. And AWB profits for shareholders of course. And $300 million for Saddam to use against those troops. Sergeant Shultz, again.

Why did George go is the real question. I still can't forget George leaning over the podium at a press conference with a puzzled look in response to that question. He said "Saddam tried to kill my Dad". That's why George sent his National Guards to their death. Oil too of course.

Democracy doesn't exist here so how can Howard say that's why we are in I wrack? it is a contadiction in terminology to say we can introduce democracy, particularly when it's not practiced here or in the US.

Hello and welcome Chris Shaw, Carisbrook 3464

Yes even pro democracy folks as myself have our alarmist. You should have read the articles. The language he uses is worth running to the window to see what the dogs barking at. Very colourful verbiage.

RobbyH

My point is that there are a lot of people out there trying to do some little part to help make the lives and future of the Iraqi people better than that which they had. Pissing on the lot to show everyone how clever they are undermines every good done. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and a great tool for the self-righteous, but there is a lot of hard work to be done in Iraq before honest hindsight can be used to mark the effort a success or a failure.

Not having access to the democratic process in Australia(?) Shouldn't preclude the opportunity for the Iraqi people to have even something that would equal that pathetic example of freedoms and human rights Australians must endure.(?)
And I don't give a tinkers damn about George Bush. If the American people can find a way to impeach him, good on them. I'll loose no sleep. Never lost a wink when they did for Bill Clinton either.

The Iraqi people in Iraq have a tough road ahead of them and I would like to see them get the opportunities to experience the life style many on this site take for granted. There is two things a person in a free world can do. Pitch in and help make it a better world for everyone or stick up your middle finger to life.

I just wish if people are going to stick up their finger to it all and rant against the machine. That they didn't go on like that was morally superior than actually doing something constructive.

Aqvarious - There is still a saying that we do need America. As we said during WW2, but after feelings and statements of deep thankfulness, we were glad when they left.

It is also so interesting that though the Americans had to quit Vietnam pretty well on the run, Vietnam is now using Western progressive economic ideas to plan for their future.

Tha same is said to some extent about Malaysia, troubled with Communist insurgents while the British were there, then the Malaysians themselves thoroughly finished the job, and have become so wonderfully successful without the British, especially as the British were wise enough to take away their corporates..

It is not that things have really changed, for it is human nature to first learn then carry on without someone looking over your shoulder. The very fact that they want to be on their own like a son or daughter learns from a father or mother then the natural urge to carry on, can be really a credit to their parents - just as it is creditable for a country to get out at the right time as the British did in Malaysia.

Had this happen with the son on the farm, who once he learnt the ropes and got married was full of beans to take over, the property having grown enormously since with his own sons taking over, with my wife studying art, and me philosophy and the social sciences. Unfortunately, my wife passed away last year at 82, me now 86 in June.