Yabby - thank you for your informative post. I'm elated to learn that in some instances cruelty to animals has slightly abated and that the good work of animal welfare groups has not gone completely unnoticed. Without their dedication, I doubt that you would be the bearer of news revealing slightly more humane actions of animals in captivity.

I'm reminded of Eleanor Roosevelt's quotation: "You must do the thing you think you cannot do".

Cowboy Joe asks: "Dickie please define cruelty to us so we can focus."

I'm completely at a loss as to how to explain the definition of cruelty to a gentleman who seemingly is of mature age and asks a question befitting of one's two year old child.

However, to accommodate this gentleman's intellectual bent, perhaps I can relate another article where he may better understand the definition of cruelty, similar to the one perpetrated by the Qld farmer:

Around about 1984, a "charming" citizen of my community raped and bashed an Aboriginal woman. He then tied her to the back of his vehicle and dragged her along dirt and bitumenised roads for a distance of approximately 6 kilometres.

I can best describe the community attitude at the time as one of "mini" anarchy (which would certainly meet with your disdain, CJ). Of course, unlike "Farmer Brown", he was gaoled for a considerable period. Can you better focus now, Cowboy Joe?

And of course, CJ, you are very selective in your zest for historical learnings where you failed to advise that it was Gandhi indeed who said:

"I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man."

And: "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."

Perhaps you will reflect on the vegetarian, Gandhi's philosophies, while you are satiating your carnivorous desires, devouring your factory farmed pork on Christmas Day, along with it's "yummy" crackling. After all, it was you who advised that I should adhere to Gandhi's teachings - wasn't it?

"Without their dedication, I doubt that you would be the bearer of news revealing slightly more humane actions of animals in captivity."

Clearly your notion is flawed Dickie. What makes you think that only
animal welfare group members have a sense of empathy or care about
animals? The relationship between humans and domestic livestock
goes wayback. Go to any third world country and yes you will see
cruelty, but you will also see kindness to animals. They don't have
any animal welfare extremists chanting in their ears either.

What you see in our society is all sorts of people interacting
with animals in all sorts of ways, as its always been. People
are not all the same, as you seem to assume. I know plenty of
farmers who care a huge amount about their livestock. They farm
because its a way of life that they are passionate about, to the
benefit of both themselves and their animals. Others don't care,
no different with city people.

Who eats an animal when it dies or uses its leather, is rather
irrelevant. To me its a huge waste to simply let the worms eat
the lot. Suffering matters when we are alive, not once we are
dead.

Anyhow, I hope that you at least enjoyed some Inverell free range
pork or some West Aussie free range lamb for Chrissy. Unless
of course you prefer to stick to lettuce leaves etc :)

Yabby continues to distort the facts.

This thread is not about encouraging readers to become vegetarians - of which I'm not.

Nor has it anything to do with what one does with an animal after it has died but rather the sadistic, legalised treatment of live animals.

Read Gandhi's philosophies in my last post, Yabby.

No doubt though, you will continue to be in denial, to ensure the status quo remains.

However, I am heartened by the reality that there will come a time when your support of the current treatment of factory farmed and feral animals will have to be addressed.

What goes around, Yabby, comes around!

Well for the vegie eaters out there i was wondering how many of you actually own a cat...you wont eat meat yourself or want to allow meat animals to be farmed or harvested for others but you dont mind animals being killed to feed your cats(or dogs).What else is there to feed them on as commercial rations tell us that "such and such" contain "meaty bites" etc or do you want to go the Linda Stoner way and feed your dogs in the cruel vegetarian way? And let me remind you that the protein in your pet food generally comes from animal by products (meat meal and fish meal)
oh! by the way this meat meal also is a high proportion of your "chook feed" for those that are anti this and that but allow a chicken fillet to pass down their gullet every now and then.Think about that while you are having your latte (with farmed milk)
Anyway back to your cat itself, what an abomination, a scourge to Australia it has become,why not put your anti meat eating,anti farming meat, anti harvesting wild game ideas on the back burner and do something far more constructive in firstly getting rid of your cat and the rest of Australias cats.Attached pic is some food destined to end up in that can that you have in your cupboard to feed your cat...unless your little Fizzy is outside helping itself to another of Australia`s wonderful indigenous fauna.

Just remember that your cat/cats do far more damage to Australia`s native fauna than any other introduced animal...think about the real facts instead of trying to convert people to your vegie thinking ideal`s...i`m rambling ,yes just like you do.



[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/gryphone/JW.jpg[/IMG]

All in the pic were taken far more humanely than any animal that has ever been slaughtered in a public abbatoir by the way and if you want to argue with that go ahead but of course if you do then its obvious that you simply dont know the truth and want to believe the propaganda and lies posted out there by the anti just about everything movement. Here is another try at posting the link.And a pic of my Xmas lunch straight off the spit..go on have a look vegies its what we eat.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/gryphone/porcetta.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/gryphone/JW.jpg

Great piece of photography gryphon. I didnt think i was that niave on these matters, but obviously you are about to prove me wrong. i have nothing against humane culling of roos but i would really like to know how those pictured could possibly be killed more humanely than at an abattoir?