Freerangemeat AKA the Gryphon asks:

"Just what do we do with these date expired wethers".

It's called forward planning Gryphon - it's what all efficient industries do.

Uncontrolled breeding is irresponsible when you state that there are "100's of thousands of sheep left to die in paddocks from starvation".

Or are excessive numbers bred, resulting in acid soils and a degraded biodiversity, to intentionally hand these animals over to the barbarians in other countries who also like to torture their livestock?

Which way will you paint the picture this time, Gryphon?

Heather,
So we're in agreement, "no new Australian laws are needed to stop animal cruelty as if the current laws were followed by everyone, there would be no animal cruelty in Australia", right?

I don't know how I feel about endorsing your idea of a public summit without seeing the agenda of the summit and a list of attendees. I have a sneaking suspicion that if such a summit were held, 99.99% of the attendees would be members of PETA, AL, etc. and it would be a "rally" for their causes opposed to a fair and balanced discussion on the questions at hand.

Alternatively, I would advocate a panel be assembled with an equal number of calm and collected representatives from both sides to come to agreement on the level of acceptable perceived animal cruelty in Australia given the restraints of the national economy and global food supply.

Education of the representatives (and the public) is the key to be able to come to an agreement as even you must admit there is a whole pile of dis-information (on both sides of the argument) which isn't helping anyone. If both sides were forced to "walk a mile in their neighbour's shoes", I truly believe that there would be a greater understanding of ALL the inputs into the debate from everyone involved and therefore a positive outcome would be more likely.

Until then, seriously, if you've never lived on a farm or raised a family on a farmer's income you cannot know more than 50% of the 'big picture' and therefore your (and this is not an attack on Heather) opinion isn't worth a thing.

It is like a man commenting on a woman in childbirth, he may have read all the online articles but he doesn't have a clue.

Dickie,

Forward planning? When you put 1,000 sheep into a paddock, it is a simple fact that they breed regardless of how big the paddock is.

On Thursday, 4 January 2007 8:14:31 PM you threatened Mimosa with "I could incarcerate you in a cage for most of your life" so you obviously don't believe that caging each animal individually to prevent them from breeding is the answer.

On Friday, 5 January 2007 1:49:31 PM you stated that de-sexing livestock is cruel.

So exactly how should Freerangemeat responsibly forward plan given that he can't restrict their movement or their sex drive?

Dickie, livestock breed all by themselves, no need for humans to
interfere or do anything. All very natural too, just like in
the wild. I thought you were for letting animals live natural
lives? Seems not.

Heather, all MLA members receive an annual report, in which
is stated how money is spent. I gather its around 3.6 million
a year, on various animal welfare programmes, both in Aus,
in the ME and in SE Asia.

The MLA website should give you more information, although
some stuff on there is restricted to us members.

They have a team, which includes a vet in the ME, who trains
locals in animal handling, assists with abattoir design, some
have now installed stun guns. Also in feedlot or holding
lot designs, some of those even have chilled water on tap
for the sheep. If you are really interested, you could
ring MLA and ask for a list of stuff which they have
achieved with the programme.

The thing is, you won't get far trying to boss Arabs around,
as George Bush is finding out. But you can encourage them.
One thing that they care about is religion and the Koran says
that they should be kind to animals. I have already suggested on
here that if AA cared about animals, they could organise a simple,
cheap campaign, to hang signs in every animal handling facility in
the ME, to remind people what the Koran says about handling
animals. Perhaps MLA would even help fund it. So far no takers,
city Aussies would rather just sit behind their computers and try to boss
Aussie farmers around, despite their lack of understanding of
the complex problems involved.

Hmm the silence is deafening re: what do we do with end of use by date wethers and broken mouthed ewes.... no answers once again? oh forward planning is it.

The ignoramous AKA the baitlayer AKA the dickle has had a pathetic attempt,however once again he clearly shows his ignorance with his miserable answers..his ignorance of the sheep/live transport industry shows how he/she has been clearly conned by the AL/Peta groups that swallow his miserable token donations like a hen picking up wheat.

I can tell you quite clearly that the baitlayer has never stood in a yard race with drench gun in hand and pack on back and drenched a few thousand wethers/ewe`s etc..hmm for days on end too.

Hmm drenching? For you Mr/Mrs ignoramous, that means to relieve the animals of possible worm infestation, now come to think of it how long since you have been wormed dickle? You know you do exhibit signs that you might just have a ten foot tapeworm residing in your bowel..cruelty to any of mother nature`s species? god! fancy feeding a tapeworm on tofu and soy milk (milk?)...bit like Lynda Stoner feeding her three dogs on a pure vegetarian diet eh.

I can tell members now that the closest the baitlayer has ever come to being on the kill floor of an abbatoir is when he passes the meat section in Coles on his way to the lumps of tofu and vegie burgers,just near the soy milk. (milk?)

It is obvious that the baitlayer and it is easily construed from his previous posts has absolutely no idea of how the real world operates re farming and allied industries, he/she great ignorance and living on a diatribe of lies from his friends at AL...

Back to basics,what do we do with these end of use by date sheep?

Solve the problem for us all,do the world of farmers some good ,come up with THE answer,hurry now,we await your solution.

I do have to ask the BL "do you sponsor a child in one of the poorer countries"? Now if you dont why not

Maybe the words of someone who DOES know what they're talking about will be listened to:

"As a fourth-generation family farmer in Montana for almost 40 years, I speak from a background of personal experience when I say that chemically based agricultural production methods today are unsustainable, and therefore ecologically disastrous.

My experiences range from...large organic dairy to...beef cattle to owning a large factory feedlot. I have farmed thousands of acres of grain and reproduced a herd of over one thousand commercial beef cows...I have raised chickens, pigs, and turkeys...[and] grown crops such as wheat, barley, oats, corn, alfalfa, and grass.

In 1979, a tumor...paralyzed [me] from the waist down. That changed my life forever. I promised myself that...I would dedicate the rest of my life to doing what I believed to be right -- no matter what changes that necessitated.

"The question we must ask ourselves as a culture is whether we want to embrace the change that must come, or resist it. Are we so attached to the dietary fallacies with which we were raised, so afraid to counter the arbitrary laws of eating taught to us in childhood by our misinformed parents, that we cannot alter the course they set us on, even if it leads to our own ruin? Does the prospect of standing apart or encounttering ridicule scare us even from saving ourselves? ...

I would love to see feedlots close and factory farming end. I would love to see more families return to the land, grow crops for our own species, and raise them organically. I would love to see farm communities revive. I would love to know that I've wandered into my nation's heartland by the sweet smell of grain and not the forbidding smell of excrement..."

Howard F. Lyman, LL.D
President & Founder, Voice for a Viable Future
http://www.madcowboy.com

Relevant information is also at
http://www.new-harvest.org/aboutus.htm

And, freerangemeat, what to do with the 'leftover' animals?
For guidance, see http://www.aswa.org.uk/Articles/lovingourfellowc.html Read it well!
Evolve your attitude towards all God's creatures. The RIGHT answer will not reveal itself to you until you do so!