How hilarious John Stone having a posting under Religion & Spirituality.
I would suggest John has the spiritual consciousness of a rock.
Apologies to rocks of course!

Fixed ideas and associated bigotry are not amusing, and certainly contribute nothing to rational debate.

Oh no. No, John, you didn't. Seriously. What? Let me read this again. Wait, yep, yeah you did.
Oh no.

I honestly don't know where to begin with the problems with this article, this paranoid outlook.
War with Islam? For crying out loud, thats a billion people. If you're already willing to class them as the enemy we're well and truly buggered.
'Our muslim problem' is nothing compared to gang warfare that has occurred overseas, yet we're already getting hysterical. You want 'quasi religious hysteria' there's your example.

And yet you're not the least bit worried about climate change? Even the most pronounced skeptics concede that it is occurring, they just claim it's part of the natural cycle, not a result of greenhouse gases - that being said it is happening, regardless of whether you believe the emissions line. So... John thinks we should ignore that?

It really scares me that this person is in a position to make serious decisions.

Good to have John Stone back writing common sense.

"Western society" gullible John Stone.
The wheel of time turns relentlessly.
I hear the echoes of WW2 when we couldn't risk the "safety" of the West, and locked up those evil, scheming, terrorist Japanese nationals, who had the temerity to adopt a new lifestyle and new friends in a new country.

Next, we had "reds under the beds".

Then, we failed to ban the Communist Party from operating in the Australian political sphere.
Three strikes and you're out, so let's find the next demons.

Aaah hah!
Those pesky, prolific Muslims!
They're a good target for our philistine frenzy - they're not Christian, so they're DIFFERENT!
How dare they not conforn to OUR culture and values, so we'll state that because of this, we have a problem.
That ought to be good enough reason for our national management to sit down and write up declarations and undertakings which all non- Australian arrivals should sign.
That'll keep the country safe.
If they're really good little Muslims, we'll even give them a fridge magnet.

Wake up, John - live in the present, accept reality, and also accept that every other being has the same feelings, hopes, and makeup as you. They also have the same right to respect.
We've had hundreds of years of futile wars trying to assert that one set of beliefs is better than another.
Now, how about hundreds of years of positive, co-operative striving to ensure that every being is accepted and respected?
Don't let your craving ego get in the way of your happiness.

Perhaps the two issues are not that separate. If John Stone wishes to address what he perceives as a “Muslim problem” in Australia he may want to look towards supporting the country in developing energy products that are not dependant on Middle East oil. Less pressure by our government to force the hand of Middle East oil could reduce the anger of religious leader in the region. The same leaders who possibly stir the spirits of their Australian brothers and sisters.
At the very least if Australia does develop and apply some energy alternatives then there is less need and reliance on Middle East oil. Perhaps to Stone’s mind this equates to less money equals less bombs?
In any event a plan for a countries government to become freer from the yoke of world oil gives greater political and economic power to that country.
What the media is doing regarding the recent words of one Muslim Cleric is helping the country re-evaluate its sense of identity; something that is organic and changing.

Garbie

Article from the Pompeii Times:

Sir, I am just about sick and tired of all these prognostications from amateur vulcanologists.

Unless the problem of the supply of barbarians for the Colusseum is addressed, there could well be seismic shifts in society.

Ask yourself: Do you want to clean your own villa, draw your own water, empty your own toilet?

The preoccupation with the (temporary) rumblings of Vesuvius has unhealthy ramifications for the very foundations of the Empire itself. Unless we make a serious effort to address our priorities, we will be buried under the burden of having to peel our own grapes.

- see if we don't.

This guy is a bit like David Flint - yearning for the kind of exposure they got in their hay day.

Now even an economist is on the "Everything is rooten about Islam" Band wagon - personally I give it about 18 months - two years tops - Now that Blair is backing off Iraq so to will he start to recant the mantra I think he started about a fight for civilisation rather than a clash of civilisations or something like that.

Bush will go on the back slide and John will follow - there will remain a rump of resentment regarding muslims.

What once was a war that will last a thousand years will be relegated to a footnote to history (not nearly enough people dead to warrant much else) - or maybe and appendix listed under "Dumb decisions of the 21st Century" it will accompanied by a photo of the Coalition of the Willing and the Fox News logo.

Ah foolish pride .... what glorious ratbaggery, the stuff that makes us nostalgic for the days of yore ....

The good thing about this megalomanic ranting, is that it puts the likes of other narcissists into a bit of perspective: compared to this bloke, Gough, Mal, Hawkie, PK et al just look like harmless, rational egotists!

This article reflects less on John Stone and more on the editorial nutcases at The Oz who would even allow this tripe to be printed. Then again, similar stuff appears in Fairfax (though less frequently).

John Stone should stick to selling the "Joh for PM" campaign. He should leave sectarianism to a pair of Sydney Archbishops ...

John, here are two alternative things to ponder on.

First: take a look at Malaysia, whose wealth is growing steadily, and where Muslim fundamentalists are not strong. See any connection?

Second: the probability of being killed on the Australian roads is astronomically higher than being killed in Australia by a 'terris'. Yet the government is not throwing bucketfuls of money at road safety. See any problem?

You seem to me to simplify everything to the point of absurdity.

An interesting article.

I think describing the Muslims in Australia as the “Muslim problem” is a bit much but he is on the right path to speaking a truth. Today when saying that if you are an Australian and you die in a politically motivated attack there will be a 95% chance that Islam will be the reason behind the attack. Never in Australia’s history has there been such a threat from people with in our own community. All these new immigrants don’t see what the fuss is about and I tell them to go and find out why Australia was once (not any more) called the lucky country.

I don’t know about climate change I think we should be taking an each way bet on it especially seeing that China and India are doing almost nothing to fix this “problem”

TRAGEDY OF DENIAL

yes.. it would be terrible if we allowed either of these issues to be persued at the neglect of the other.

Global warming is something I'm not scientifically up to speed on, but I gain the impression that it is something we should be working on, and fast. I have the technical skills to install Solar panels on every roof, and know it is a good thing.

1/ 10 Solar panels +Interactive inverter+ battery bank.
2/ NO electic heating or cooking (Gas only) Carbon TAX on all electic cookers/heaters.
3/ High efficiency lighting on all new homes.

This alone would reduce our C02 output dramatically.

PROBLEM ? "Economic Rationalism/Privatization of Utilities"
why ? Simple. "Now that we have all this EXCESS electical capacity..lets build a truckload of new FACTORIES etc".......and so it goes on.

ISLAMIST THREAT ? I wish I could put my heart feelings into words better, but all of you who seem to deny this would be well advised to obtain a copy or at least SEE the doco "Obsession: The threat of radical Islam".
The last time I saw red hot speakers talking about ruling the world was around 1939 (on film of course) but even Hitler was not 'saying' that directly ... he implied it.. the clerics shown speaking in ENGLISH on this doco are actually saying it.

Don mentioned 1 billion ... yes. and from those the fighters for Bosnia, Chechnya, Iraq, Lebanon all came.

RADICAL....ISLAMIST are the key words. Just like the 'radicals' hijacked the G20 protest and turned it into a "G20 RIOT" for the world to see, highly motivated small groups can do the same on the Religious front. There are 13 suspects in Melb and 11 in Sydney in this connection.

I saw this happening last saturday..I was there.

Whether the appeasers and cowards like it or not, Islam is at war with our western values and way of life. You can cower away under your rocks all you like - you only have to look at Europe to see the problems we face. The greatest danger facing our civilization is not climate change. It's the advance of Islam which would have us back in the dark ages.

If only the cowards would devote half the energy to opposing Islamofascism as they do climate change skeptics we'd probably be alright.

"In short, we should remain officially complacent about the most serious threat to our future, namely the fundamental incompatibility of Islam with Western society,"

...you can't see the mirror image then? Look at what "Christians" and "Jews" are up to in the ME. I suppose our cluster bombs and depleted uranium pose no threat to the future of ordinary people there(or the environment)?

The business world has created a right bruhaha with mis-information, knowing that to truly tackle climate change, we will have to tackle how we do business. Ensuring that war is out of bounds as a valid tool for business would be a good place to start. Ironically, this would be good for the environment too.

And if only the fanatics would devote half the energy to investigating the facts as they do repeating the rants of other fanatics we'd probably be alright as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1952627,00.html

Only a matter of years ago, the same sorts of hatreds were being spread about Asians, and before them it was the Greeks, Italians, Yugoslavs, Jews, Catholics, Irish.....

A citizenship test is supposed to be some sort of solution?

Our climate will still be here long after the ethnic cleansing the author dreams about has been completed.

Wobbly one....

I wish to take issue with your comment:

"Only a matter of years ago, the same sorts of hatreds were being spread about Asians, and before them it was the Greeks, Italians, Yugoslavs, Jews, Catholics, Irish"

In short...."no". It is not the 'same' nor is it 'hatred' as far as I can see. I cannot speak for others, but for me, (as a scrutiny of my emails to Muslims would reveal) its about issues.

I honestly don't think you can show me an example of a Greek political or religious leader from 'a matter of years ago' who was ranting about 'Ruling the World' and referring his rant to the exploits of Alexanda (the Macedonian :) I don't recall any Italians of any political or religious persuasion saying "We will stop when we cleanse the world of the White House". I'm talking people/leaders with solid 'street cred' in their respective communities now... not some bloke on a soap box.
Jews... well they don't sign write it :) They just snipe at the Coles board from the outer (while keeping all their shares) because they want the purchasing to be chanelled through 'family' companies :)
All the other ethnic groups you mentioned.. most people recognize they simply wanted a new life with no political baggage.

Can you point to such ? If you can, then I can agree 'same'.

I truly suspect john stone is mad.
Whether the change in the climate is man made or part of the natural cycle, it is going to cause more problems for australia than a handful of radical Muslims. Indeed, if the drought is any indication or the earlier and earlier onset of the bushfire season - it already is.
even when the IRA was at its height, it caused little real angst for the vast majority of the english, and there were a great deal more Irish immigrants in britain at the time than there are Muslim ones here.
apparently even an American is nine times more likely to be struck by lightening than killed by a terrorist - so you can imagine what the stats are like for Australians - infinitesimal ( but the rate of melanoma is rising), so even in the natural scheme of things, the climate is more dangerous.

I think I'm gunna be sick! Wobbles directs us to an article in The Guardian telling us how Red Ken Livingstone thinks we're being mean to Islamofascists! That's your idea of facts?! God, (or should I say, Gaia) help us!

Actually Wobbles, the poor old Jews still bear the brunt of a fair bit of hatred - mainly from your Islamic friends and their sycophants like Red Ken. We're really not dealing with Italians, Catholics, or the Irish. It's something closer to Nazism. But then there were heaps of people around who didn't want to oppose that either.

If you don't think that your way of life, or your culture and traditions are worth protecting, then fair enough. Why don't you just come out and say this instead of denying the obvious threats facing them?

Firstly, the author is correct only insofar as we have a real problem of interface between the Muslim world and the West.

People like Stone think of it as an external problem being foisted on us, though the problem is as much to do with our own making. This is not a defence of Islamic militants, just a recognition that we are guilty of lighting the fuse. Meybe its hard to put out the fuse now that it is lit, but many of us warned against lighting the fuse in the first place. You should have listened John Howard and John Stone and all others of your ilk!

Secondly, there are actually three key threats, not two. A lot has been said of climate change and despite remnants of pathalogical denial, this is now being recongnised for what it is - the biggest moral dilemma ever to be faced by humankind. Hundreds of millions of lives are at stake.

Yet in the short term, the end of the age of oil is as much a pressing problem, and will have its own diabolical ramifications on society as we know it. I would argue this problems is as big as that posed by climate change, for not only is the world plunging itself into resource wars (witness Iraq), a quadrupling of energy prices in coming decades has the potential to cause immense hardship, civil strife and the collapse of some major economies.

Let's not try to diminish one crisis in order to highlight another. All three are issues of major humanitarian concern. Putting on blinkers does not help. A healthy debate on all fronts should focus on appropriate courses of action, not stupid denial.

Its time you made a comeback although you would probrably have to stick to PC if you did. This is one of the most sensible articles I have seen in a long time. Talk about mass hysteria on climate change when its been around since God created the earth.

And in the meantime while the ostrich Australian government leaders bury their collective heads in the sand, the muslim cleric who sneeringly called Australian girls,"pieces of cat's meat" goes about his daily business no doubt thinking up something even more filthy to call his host country's female inhabitants the next time.
Because he can use every dirty word in his 'sermons' to stir up hatred and possible rape but this government will just hope no one hears it.They will shut their trembly little ears so they do not hear it.
Had any Christian cleric used identical words about muslim women, the streets would be burning.

I do not agree with a lot of what John Stone writes however what I find disturbing is the new McCarthyism emerging in relation to the debate over climate change. How many of the doomsayers above are actually doing anything practical to help the environment instead of ranting about the end of the world and the idiocy of those wanting to discuss the economics. How many of you have sold your car, stopped flying and converted to solar energy? More action, less talk people.

Sheesh. John Stone sure is angry.

In 2005, 70 percent of Australians were worried about global warming, and 57 percent were worried about Islamic fundamentalism (Lowy Institute).

It's a democracy John. It's not very nice to say Australian women are cat's meat, but it's also not very nice to say 70 percent of Australians are stupid for not agreeing with you on climate change.

All this crankiness is going to do is drive up your blood pressure

John Stone's contibution to the debate on deporting hilali in the senate.

"Johnno"

Feeling guilty for past inaction Stoney?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6505809

On the subject of Islamofascism there is plenty of evidence to show that Stone is not far off the mark. This article in the Danish press is but one example. You can find the same in pretty well all European countries

Playing down global warming while playing up a "Muslim problem" is a bit hard to swallow. The thing is, I'm more likely to believe a bunch of scientists with evidence than you, John, and your mob with your baseless, xenophobic paranoia. I don't think the comments of an old mufti to a group of old muslim men mean that there is a "storm brewing" in the Australian muslim community like you would have us believe. However, I do think that global warming is a big problem and the opinions of people who deny the part that we have played in it are becoming less and less tenable in light of the evidence.... Today was the hottest day recorded in Melbourne in 70 years, I think I need an icy pole.

Tak

If yesterday was the hottest day in Melbourne for 70 years, and by inference it was GW, the what made it so hot the many years ago,when the poor dears didnt have icey poles

When a strom brews the lter the ou rete yor johen steoibed trei s too herd and looke what you get. I think that thew maajor probelem that Steone dfaces is that he acariies soe mucng baggage around with heim from the 19880s Joeh for Canberrra and all that,

I agree with Don and God help me, Boaz on this matter.

It is radicalism we are talking about here. Malasia and Indonesia with its "panacia" policy outlawing radical fundamentalism could have some merit. Compared to the middle east, this region is more moderate in the kinds of Islamic countries we have in the Asia Pacific.

This does not come close to the problems of global warming. It is going to cost us a fortune to clean up this mess and as the UK has announced, we no longer have a choice.

Fasten your seat belts, stick together, and try to be sensible. This is going to be a rough ride to stop Global warming turning us into Ethiopia with Hurricane Katrina's. We have no time to be afraid or petty when we know a very serious storm is approaching. Ask the farmers.

The saint has spoken. Amen. ;>

Errr...According to John Stone, climate change, melting icecaps, unprecedented heat and cold waves, unprecedented drought..none of that is the 'real issue'.

Aussies got it wrong, Sheikh Tag is the 'real issue'...
No further comments ...:):)

Ise tooo agree with Don and Godzilla help me, Boaz and SaintFeltcehre on this matter.

It is radicallism weez are talking about here. Malasssia and Indonesia with its "panacia" policy outlawing radical fundamebntalism could have some meerit. Compaired to the middle ear, this region is more mooderate in the kinds of Islammic countries we have in the Asia-Pacific/Indian Ocean.

This does not come cloose to the problems of global worming. It is gunna-going to cost us a missfortune to clean up this mess and as the UK has announced, we no longer have a choose.

Fasten your sheat belts, stock together, and try to be sensationable. This is going to be a rough ride to stop globex worming turning us into Ethiopia with Hurricane Katrina's pants. We have no time to be afraid or pretty when we know a very serious stoerm is approaching. Ask the farmers.

In Rove we trust.

Stone and similar fear mongers remind me of Channel 9 - still broadcasting last centurys programs to an audience that is finally nauseated. Let him bleat, i say, this summer will show even dunderheads on parliamentary pensions that their beloved business as usual will kill us all quicker than Osama and Bird Flu combined.

If we're in such peril its surprising Chairman Howards culture police allow such upatriotic sentiment - don't new Sedition Laws bar undermining confidence in the State? By stoking fear and parroting ignorance doesn't Stone feed fundamentalist recruitment?

But RightThink demands an enemy, they need War and an Other to demonise and rally the doubters (lest they too be labelled 'Other', like the fags, the abos, the feminists, the bleeding hearts, the academics, the rentacrowd, ...). "No more commies? Lets fund the haji's till they're enough of a threat to cover for culpable military adventurism and incompetent defence-contract pork barreling".

But it is funny watching them bend and twist, inventing new sales pitches for old old policies. If they're doing it for their 'place in history' they better stop now, cos suddenly, just in last two months, i don't know anyone who would micturate on them if they were combusting (as a Christian said to me)

Scaremongering is what I call this.Crowdcontrol via chemical med's and the use of fluorolisic acid,aluminium,chloride in our DRINKING water, gun control,it starts all over again as in the 30'ees in Europe
To top it all off, the oil scare,global warming what rubbish!
Exporting natural gas to China and lucrative export of uranium,coal etc.
will still be going on to pay our debts to the world? Where is the money going? What is the profit doing to Australian citizens? We are under the thumb from an illigit government.They do swear an oath to the Queen of England when taken a Government possition,don't they? That makes them foreign agents, we therefore do not have to abide. That is the storm which I can see brewing.Together with the scrapping of multi-culturalism
and outlawing any religion which embraces different laws whilst not abiding the laws of this once lucky country.Direct democracy and not parlaimentary rule is what is needed here.

BD,
The basis for most of your arguments is quotes by radicals as a basis for everybody’s beliefs.

Here are just a few quotes from who I call “the American Taliban”. They all come from Presidents, politicians as well as Church and respected community leaders. There are lots more.

“We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.”
"There should be absolutely no 'Separation of Church and State' in America."
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
“I praise God all the time for AIDS."
"We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand."
"We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."
"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between Communistic Atheism and Christianity."
"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah.”
“George Bush was not elected by a majority of the voters in the United States, he was appointed by God.”
“Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity.”
"The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves.
" Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation.”
"Raising your children under Americanism or any other principles other than true Christianity is child abuse."
"Democracy originated in the mind of a rational being who has the deepest hatred for God."
"The best way to insure the earth is never over populated is for sensible and righteous governments to clear all forms of atheism and heresy."
"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ."
"There is only one way to get rid of nuclear weapons... use them".
(cont)

(continued)

There are many more quotes along this theme. How are they different from the lunatic rantings of a few Muslim fundamentalists?
The Bible also says that non-believers should be killed and that everybody should be converted, but most of these influential people are expecting EVERYBODY to die in a blaze of righteous glory and actually they have the means to achieve this.

So BOAZ_David, which CURRENT religious or political leader speaks for you?

BOZZIE, the point of that link is to show that despite all that has happened in London there are community leaders still willing to build bridges and not put up walls to solve their problems.
(“everybody in London should be free to live their lives how they like as long as they don't stop other people doing the same”).

So short of killing every last non-believer, what’s your preferred solution to getting out of this quagmire?

A formal Citizenship Test a-la John Stone? (Ridiculous.)

Forcing them all to convert to Christianity? (Which version? Never mind, we wouldn’t trust them anyway.)

Sending every last Muslim out of the country, regardless of citizenship, and officially ban the religion? (Could cause problems with our trading partners.)

Some sort of apartheid or segregation system to isolate them from us?
I know – round them all up and put them in special camps until we can work out a Final Solution? (Been done before but maybe this time it just might work.)

I’d really like to know if there are any other options.

Our relationship with even moderate Muslims has been poisoned to the extent that we can never go back.

Anyway if we wait long enough, the media will find another cause to promote for their political masters and once again, lead us by the nose in a different direction.

They will again tell us what to wear, what to watch, what to eat, what to believe, what to fear, who to trust and who to hate.

By then the climate issue may also just go away too.

Wobbles.

You compare statements by the, as you call them “American Taliban” (government, president etc), to that of what Islam says.

Some statements do have similar meanings and sentiments, given.

But this is where you go wrong........
I will demonstrate.. Note- we are discussing the west ‘this article’, and I will refer to the west..

Now you compare America’s leaders (president & parliament) statements about Islam (Muslims etc..), to that of what Islam says about the west.

But your problem is this...

Madrid, London, 9-11 are examples of why Islam’s comments ABOUT the WEST, IN the WEST (i.e. "shake halali's statement) is BAD for the WEST.
Fact (Islam’s comments, i.e. sheik hilahi’s “women are like...) are bad for our western society’s.

Now you show me example’s of how president bush’s statements are bad for western people in the west. And the only way that those comments could be bad for western people, in the west (excluding outside attacks) is if multi-culturalism (allowing islam in etc) leads to fighting.(fails)

if that "western statement" is bad for westeners living in the west, and that those statements can lead to internall attack, means that the allowing in of islam(muslims) was a catastophic mistake.

Islam (Muslims) cannot fit in to our western (australian) ways (culture, society etc).
They are not fitting in right now as I speak!(fact)
My definition of fitting in, is not like yours which is “I see one walk into a shop and buy an apple and thus they are fitting in”.
Right now they are not part of Australia.

They are a tribe, definition “a family or community, linked by social, religious, or blood ties. Having a common culture and dialect, and a recognized leader (I.e. MUFTI)

That completely answers how well Muslims are fitting in. Admit it, that definition means we have tribes in Australia (therefore not multi-cultural and can presume possible future hardships could lead to mass fighting in Sydney and elsewhere) Because tribes fight.

Muslim immigration needs to be stopped, because you’re only allowing an anti western tribe to grow in your very own western city.

John Stone and his dear friend Maxwell Newton, another advocate of wise and strong views, from their old student days at the Perth Modern School, were the best and the brightest that Australia ever produced. Yet in this thread, there is an inundation, of the half-baked educated and D performers in their schooling, of ill-considered opinion and ad hominem attacks of John Stone for his serious, wise, and strong views about where the real threat to Australia, and indeed, to Western civilization, lies.

All the above pitiful traducers of the man, who among all Australians would deserve to have the mantle of leadership on his shoulders, should be reminded, that it's only by the GRACE of the internet that they able to ventilate their INANITIES. Otherwise, they would not be able to pen even a letter to a provincial newspaper. And their literary qualities and critique would have the "FLASH" of the toilet.

For more on the Islamist threat See:http://power-politics1.blogspot.com

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1162378443007&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

For those who have doubt about Stones premise, have a read of this.

I would rather suffer a slight rise in temperature, (which by the way I could avoid by moving 100kms south), than see a further rise in the level of unreason, and the Muzzoes eroding our freedoms/standards even on jot further.

They are salami slicing us back to the 15th century with every twist and lie.

Keep at it John Stone, you are one of the few who is awake and doing their homework.

Themistocles, on what basis do you ascertain the education or intelligence of the posters criticising stone? it seems hypocritical to make accusations of ad hominen attacks when you yourself have passed judgement on the contributors based entirely on their criticism of the article, which you obviously feel compelled to defend.

it is illuminating that those critical of the article for the most part address the content and quality on the ideas presented, while the support (with the possible exception of boaz) consists primarily of congratulatory remarks containing no real analysis. this would suggest their reading of the article only went as far as to confirm their, and your particular prejudices, and once confirmed avoided any critical analysis.

perhaps you would care to explain why this is a wise and well considered article? I know of course that you agree with it, but that's not what im asking.

personally I have avoided commenting on this article because frankly it is undeserving of any serious discussion, the first thought on completing it was 'infantile', although some passages did make me laugh (darkly admittedly), particularly the comment about Costello's ability to make judgements on the science, which made me wonder about stone's ability to do the same...

(cntd)

the reason i have little respect for this article? setting aside my distaste for the irrational prejudices displayed within the real concern is that stone's suggestions are so lacking in reason or reality to be taken seriously. I find it astounding that someone involved in politics for the length of time that stone has been could seriously advocate that any government should ignore any problem of the magnitude of climate change (which even our current one can no longer do). or suggest that any problem can be addressed in isolation.

stone is not even proposing 'prioritising', which would be a reasonable suggestion even if I disagree.

global warming is of course a larger problem for Australia, albeit longer term and less direct than the threat (real or otherwise) of terrorism. bigmal's inane suggestion that the scope of the problem is related only to thermal comfort and perhaps rainfall ignores the global nature of politics and the economy. Australia can ill afford to be isolated on this issue, the countries that deal with it first are going to be the ones who prosper most in the long run.

it also ignores the effect that climate change in other areas could have on Australia, not in the wether, but in the geopolitical situation. it doesn't take much imagination to consider the effects of prolonged drought on the massively populated and nuclear armed India, china and Pakistan. a worst case scenario perhaps but pressure on resources has always been a catalyst for conflict.

im not suggesting that radical Islamism should be ignored, just that the dismissal of global warming is irrational at best.

"the reason I have little respect for this article? setting aside my distaste for the irrational prejudices displayed within the real concern is that stone's suggestions are so lacking in reason or reality to be taken seriously."

Completely agree, its not easy being. What surprises me is that the author sees no similarity in his rants to those that he is supposed to be defending us from. If this scenario comes about, it will be due just as much to such paranoia as it would anything else. Unfortunately, there are extremists in ALL circles and they should be denounced at every turn. I post on several blogs around the world and wherever you go the Islamaphobes tend to be the same people denying climate change. Strange coincidence?

Its not easy being IGNORANT!

The comparison with Costello? John Stone has a First Degree in science from Cambridge University.

Bozzie - the cowards are best represented by the nut bags that have spent millions and millions because a very few thousands of westerners got blowed up - to protect them from bugger all.

Obviously - you've been smacked at least in an intellectual sense all over this site(fact!) as you might say - and that is a habit I strongly suggest you drop if you want to preserve any credibility

- your so called logic and amatuer genetics is a poor excuse for an argument against people you just dont like.

And themosticles - who really cares what Stone has got - if you use his trifling academic achievements as a some sort of recommendation for leadership we'd have Barry Jones as an ex PM - and why are you so scronful of provincial newspapers - I just had a letter published in one today you pompous ass - so too I imagine have any number of people here.

Maybe you should only let people you see as having an suitable intellect onto the internet - is that what you want? -

the real threat to are people who jump at shadows - not the muslims

INKEEMAGEE

"Obviously - you've been smacked at least in an intellectual sense all over this site(fact!) as you might say - and that is a habit I strongly suggest you drop if you want to preserve any credibility"-INKEEMAGEE

When I say fact, I say fact as in it came from another source as fact, that source being dawkins books..

Steve madden, brain drain, sneekpete have all disagreed with me in the past, and who’s opinions, though contrast to mine, I respect.
Why are you the only one who results to uncalled for childish insults? (prev posts aswell)

To attack my intelligence on a OPINION page (i.e. lets get some thoughts out there) was below the belt, and someone who hits below the belt is someone who is not worth listening to.

In fact I think you are more immature then I.

The point Stone is making re Islam is very serious. His lack of emphasis on Global Warming, or.. perhaps more reasonably stated "A committment to renewable energy and energy efficient technology ASAP"
as simply a responsible act of stewardship of the earth is also serious.

I think such issues should never be brought together in one article.
One is environmental and the other is social. They are equally important. In one case it is the death of the planet in the other it is death of culture and freedom in which case the state of the planet probably won't mean squat if ur dead inside.

I draw everyone's attention to the assassination of Pierre Gemayel. Maronite Christian leader in Lebanon. It should not be forgotten that it was a similar event in 1975 which triggered the Lebanese civil war.

SUSPECTS.

1/ Syria... Gemayel was anti Syria.
2/ Hezbollah...for that same reason.
3/ Iran.......wants to extend influence, reduce opposition.
4/ Mossad... divide and rule, distract.... etc.
5/ CIA...... same as 4

Given the number (5) of assassinations of Anti Syria leaders of recent date, I am drawn to think Hezbollah is the more likely.
Reason ? They want to weaken the existing government and take power.
So this brings Iran into the picture.
Islam has no trouble doctrinally with 'strategically neccessary' political assassination as demonstrated by Mohammed its founder.

Diverstity=Danger. Imagine the social impact on Sydney if Hilaly or Keysar Trad had been gunned down ? We need to localize these things to appreciate the real impact.
Large Islamic communities are dangerous for 2 reasons.
1/ Radical element who accept assassination as 'Islamic'.
2/ Vulnerable to manipulation by radicals.

I agree with ena concerning Stone's sanity. He should be wheeled back inside his nursing home and given some medication and some baskets to weave.

This might also be good therapy for his supporters who have commented here.

Or maybe they could start a "John Stone for PM" campaign. We all need a good laugh.

Boaz,

I agree with the suspect list although not in this order.

I can understand Hezbollah being a suspect, but why Syria?
everything happening in Lebanon seems to be driving against Syrian interests.
It was the assassination of Hariri that kicked them out of Lebanon.

F.H. the order was not critical in my post. Its just a list.

Regarding Syria... Actually there should be in brackets after that (IRAN) because my understanding is that Syria is obliged to Iran due to some 'cheap oil' kind of deal, and Iran needs Syria to keep hezbollah going and becoming stronger. So, perhaps the list should be shortened to 'Iran/Hezbollah' if you consider how many have been killed.
I can't really imagine Mossad doing it, but stranger things have happened.

I'm more concerned for Melbourne, and out abysmally managed police.
The police are great.... its the politicians pulling strings who are the problem.
Look at this video and see what happens to the little girl police woman after the protesters walk through police lines. So predictable and culpable on the part of the moron who decided to make front line crown control an 'equal opportunity' thing. (i.e. its not equal anyway, the girls are much MORE likely to have their skulls cracked by protesters than the guys)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKiRBWZ-Lj8

Looking for a place to put James Packer who reckons Australia's media lanscape wil change in the next few years. Reckon it has already with nary a comment from a dumb public about an also dumb son of a very shrewd and hopefully intelligent father.

A gallant lad who decided to become an Aussie emblem by staking all his money on gambling.

If this is now just part of honest ordinary earning, surely Maynard Keynes proved a real prophet before he died when he declared Australia's future lay sadly in casino capitalism.

“I post on several blogs around the world and wherever you go the Islamaphobes tend to be the same people denying climate change. Strange coincidence?”

Well Kevin so do I, and I don’t notice the particular prejudice you refer to.

If it does exist then perhaps it’s got some thing to do with the,
a) Importance the issues are given in media and politics anyway, and,
b) The fact that some posters do bother to do a modicum of homework, and
c) They do have the education and life experiences to be able to make sensible judgments, and
d) Actually do bother to read widely, and do comprehend material a bit better than the average bar fly.

In the last 24 hours, for example, and I repeat, for example, here are two pertinent additions:

1. This I by a Melb. PhD. Math’s/Stats student who has bothered to look at the trend in day/night temperatures, over each 6hour time slot

http://gustofhotair.blogspot.com/2006/11/that-sun-is-hot.html

Sort of casts serious doubt on the AGW theory of human sourced Co2 driven climate changed, doesn't it.

2. This is a diary note by Melanie Phillips, of recent date, referring to a CNN piece by Glenn Beck on Islamic violence and the well funded agenda that is running.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/?p=1405

You see Kevin, if you bothered to do some H/W you will find that dear old John Stone is not so far off the mark after all, because there is abundant material to support his main premise, and bugger all to support yours, and that of others who have posted herein.

BigMal insists we take one students statistical exceptionalism and a copy'n'paste by a columnist on the (far right wing) UK Daily Mail over the multiple consensus reports of the 1500 climatologists in the IPCC, backed by Australias BoM and CSIRO.

This is the benefit of BigMals "education and life experiences"? An aquired brain injury would do the same.

Kevin, I too have noticed that climate change deniers are also usually War on Terror fanatics, and frequently economic rationalist fundamentalists too. Good news is that there are actually not very many of them, they rarely make any sense, and they're on the run on every open forum across the web. It seems more and more people are discovering how easy it is to deflate their propaganda, and fun too!

Liam,

Very glib and seemingly clever with the words but I do notice that you dont have the brains (damaged or otherwise) to add anything of value.

As for blindingly following what the IPCC/CSIRO are putting about, now that is a laugh, I mean anyone who believes in what climate models say 50 years out is seriously delusional. They cant even model the behaviour of clouds, or aerosols, never mind having sufficient skill to predict the weather in 2-3 years time.

Obviously you are adherent of the consensus view of science when most enlightened people would say that consensus is a political statement, not a scientific one.

John Stone is correct in general, if a bit non-PC. Maybe he should cloak his real thoughts under a cloud of obfuscation, like so many of the mealy mouthed idiots on this forum.
Before the Second World War there was exactly the same reaction to the threat of Nazism, as there is today to the Muslim threat. People didn't want to face up to an unpleasant truth.
Appeasement didn't work then, and it certainly won't work now. And I speak not as a Christian, but as a secularist and agnostic.
Get real people, open your eyes and have the courage to see what is happening!
We now, throughout the Western World, aided and abetted by our leftist multi-culti PC friends, accommodate a virulent fifth column. Funny how its the same crowd who are trying to dismantle our society by cutting off its energy supplies. Funny how a bunch of lefties can so easily ally themselves with a bunch of religious fascists!
How often do you see the so called "moderate muslims" properly condemning the slaughter that they are visiting on their own people? I refer to Iraq, where Sunnis and Shias are carrying out mass murder nearly every week.
And of course, not even acknowledging the terrorist acts carried out in London, Madrid and many other places, as anything to do with them and their crackpot beliefs, let alone condemning them!
This is added to their well known views and punishments against women, homosexuals, non-religious people, and practically anyone they disapprove of in their religious fervor.
Mark Steyn is much more eloquent than I am. Read this:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760
Anybody who hasn't been to Europe recently will not know what I'm talking about. Go and have a look. http://newcultureforum.blogspot.com/2006/11/mark-steyn-talks-to-new-culture-forum.html

Still poking at strawmen eh Bigmal? If climate models were all climate change were about, do you think Rupert Murdoch, Tony Blair and Richard Branson would be talking like latte-sipping dole-bludging terrorist-sympathising bleeding hearts? (trying to talk a lingo you might comprehend)

Instead we've got measurable changes in rainfall, dramatic falls in in arctic sea ice, Siberian tundra degassing, accelerated glacial melts, and fewer frost days (to pick a few symptoms). The dozen or so leading climate models (of which i think CSIRO run 5) are merely efforts to work out what the $%&?#$ is going on, they are irrelevant to the changes in climate already measured.

If you know so much better then put your research on paper and get it published in a reputable journal. Forty years of base ridicule from the likes of you have been decisively contradicted by events and real data, and still you babble on!

They say science advances by funerals, i can't promise i'll send flowers to yours. Thats not a threat, merely reflective of fact that old dogs find it very hard to admit they are wrong/learn new tricks. Prove the cliche wrong Bigmal (and Mr Stone), get a clue.

Liam, you are completely deluded. Haven't you been watching the news on TV these last few years? Haven't you seen the Muslim demonstrators in London, Muslim terrorist attack in London killing over 50 people, among whom there were some Australians? Aren't you aware of the various ways in which the UK is trying to accommodate these fascist bastards?
You can keep denying it all if you like, but one day it is going to be such a huge awakening.
If you lived in London you'd soon see the reality, which you are protected from out here.

Froggie, this Liam character is not only deluded on the Muslim question he has it completely up the creek with is assessment of GW. There is science to rebut, or cast grave doubt as to the relevance of everyone one of his examples. I dont have to do any of it,it already exists.

If he had two neurones to rub together he might have the comprehension to go and look for himself, but when he's too busy peddling invective and "having fun", why would he.

Further he claims that modellers are trying to work out what the f#$%is going on, but he himself is too ignorant to realise that runnng models to better understand a process, is vastly different to making deliberately alarmist projections as to what the temperature will be in 50 years time.

These models have so many assumptions and fudge factors applied to work around what they dont know, that attaching any level of certainty is fool hardy. But then if ones budget is conditional on how great one can make the problem seem to be to the pay masters, then why not engage in exaggeration and distortion.

well said froggy.
thats partly the problem, not to many australians saw the violent demonstartions of thousands of muslims in Engalnd. when people call for the death of their "own" troops you defently have a problem. and that problem does not lay with the generous british people who allowed these war torn people to immigrate, the problem lays completely in the religously fanatic hands of the muslims.
you can not blame social inequality for their behaviour as they fled a war torn country, scared of a bomb that would drop on them or family members, they are in no position to winge , cry racism or all of the above at their "vast improvement" on their previous lives.

any1 who calls for the death of their own troops should amount to treason! (if they want to become part of the country) having the ability to fall under such a law means they are being accepted,this law should be the type of thing the british government should employ, as they can deal with the problem(muslim fanaticism(crazy msulim syndrome or CMS)) yet it comes with some type of inclusion, muslims can feel part of the country to fall under such rules.
the british government should really have a go at something like that, as should our governtment.

I am suprised this author tied the 2 subjects together. im guessing he thought of a catchy heading "A bigger storm is brewing" and just had to go with it.

with climate, im not 100% shaw what the truth is.
but i am 100% shaw that it is a topic that no1 can be skeptical about due to the serious of the possible outcome of such a problem, so action needs to be taken on that ground alone.

I love the shennanigans that go on in these pages -

I am particularly amused by the positions adopted by the racial determinists and those who would seem to spend most of their time quaking under their beds waiting for the hordes of Muslims to come and take us over -

and it is good to see a few youngsters in their ranks - obviously comes immediately to mind - he would have been too young to experience the fear of the commies or even the paranoia associated with the "asianisation" of Australia.

But still I wait for a cogent response to the question - What are we to do with all these Muslims - who it seems pose the greatest threat to mankind since reality TV became popular?

Sure we have proponents of assimilation, forced and un forced, the anti immigration boys and girls and there are those who think a test on Aussie values and english might work -

Those measures might address the few hundred thousand here (in your dreams) - but what exactly do those people whose every waking moment seems to be in fear of Islam propose to do about the other 1.8 billion around the world? Hmmmmm? - if IT and They are so bad - what's the plan - surely you got one

Constant references to the threat they pose suggests far more robust things than the mealy mouthed suggestions made to date - so, where to from here? - any one? ...........crickets chirping is all I hear.

Hi Sneekee
Well since it was you and your mates, promoters of multi-culti "kumbaya" "let's take anyone who wants to come here" who caused the problem, maybe you can come up with a solution.
And by the way, this is nothing at all to do with race, but everything to do with culture and religious belief.
I don't think it is up to us to come up with a solution. Unfortunately for the moderate Muslims, their relative silence in the face of these extremists only tends to harden attitudes in Europe toward them, and make Europeans think they are complicit in these actions.
These actions will only lead to harsh reactions against them if things continue as they are. They certainly need a reformation if they are to drag themselves into the 21st Century.
The Muslims keep harping on about the fact there are about 1.3 billion of them. The rest of the world i.e. non-muslim is therefore about 4.7 billion, thus outnumbering them approximately three to one.
Their incompatibility with our culture makes them more of a problem than their numbers imply. Assimilation does not seem to be possible, as the French, the Dutch and others have discovered.

the problem is not mine - I see no threat - i see no concerted effort to conquer - and yes Ive seen all that CNN and Fox and G Beck has to offer on hate filled speeches by ranting Imams -
and no I am not all that worried -

all those who perceive the threat as looming large surely need to come up with a plan - if they cant or wont - I suggest the problem is primarily in their heads - just like the threat of the yellow peril and the asianisation of Australia was.

And as for numbers there is a core of scaredy cats who really do belive the muslims will shag their way to world domination - they are breeding faster than us you know - put fingers to mouth and bite finger nails....

Some have suggested bombing Iran - now ther's a plan - I dont really know what it will achieve other than a moment of excitment for some - as there are those who like nothing more than a good bombing - that joy is not limited to suicide bombers - and then what -

will it result in a mass conversion to christianity? - will the scales will fall from their eyes and they will see the true wonders of western culture? - recant their wicked ways and their faith?- throw off the burqua? - unlikely -

maybe we could try minding our own business for a while and see what goes down - may be we have a concerted effort to focus on terrorists as the criminals that they are not a vangaurd of a theocracy - may be we admit Iraq was a folly rooted in lies and dismal failure to actually find the one kidneyed bearded bugger and dyalasis machine lumbering around the hills of Afghansitan with his goats and donkey.

John Stone, in Quadrant magazine, put the Muslim problem in clear terms:

"There is an old adage that, when you are already in a hole, stop digging. The entry into Australia of Muslim immigrants over the past thirty-five years or so means that we are now in a hole. The first thing to do, then, is to stop digging. We should curtail very sharply, to the point of virtually halting, the further entry of Muslims within our immigration programs. That will be attacked as “discriminatory”, and so it is. We have every right to discriminate against the admission to Australia of people of any culture that we believe will be incompatible with the peace, order and good government of our country."

It is time to discriminate and stop Muslim immigration. In time, their higher birth rates will take over this country. Kiss Australia goodbye or stand up to this problem now. Just go down to south-west Sydney after school and you will be crowded out by kids in their headscarfs. I already feel like a stranger in parts of Sydney I grew up in.

well said online east. excellent post. the first part to solving a problem is to stop the problem getting bigger.
STOP MUSLIM IMMIGRATION!<politicians need to listen.

So I guess online east would endorse the compulsory sterilisation of those muslims here - just to thwart their revolution by procreation movement - their fightback with fecunditiy - this racial determinism endorsed by the little cheer leader obviously is right out of the eugenics guide to better living.

Who might be next in line on the hate list, Hmmmmmmm? any one else you do not like this week? Asians maybe? - there is a sh t! lot of those around - and they were a big worry back in the 90's if I recall - why just stop at the muslims - is it because that word is printed a lot in big letters and easier to read than the other hard ones?

My guess is online east feels like a stranger where ever he is not only in the suburbs where he grew up - must be hard walking down the street looking about with nothing but side ways glances and for ever jumping at shadows.

I know that is being a bit mean - but it is Christmas after all and I am nearing the end of my tether with some of the nut bags opinions on muslims - and there is just so much of them about.

And I dont do christmas well at the best of times - all the good cheer and that - strikes me most times as being a legit as a three dollar note -

where was it in April? is what I say. And that is my excuse - or should I say reason.

Dear Peter,

I currently live in a house with an Asian and a black African, top blokes. Half my school and work friends are wogs and asians.

But yes, it would logically follow that I support something along the lines of "the compulsory sterilisation of those muslims here - just to thwart their revolution by procreation movement". And I do.

Don't know what "fecunditiy" means.

If you want your descendants to live in an islamic state then go ahead and induldge your dream. I will not present that risk to my descendants if it is within my power.

"Who might be next in line on the hate list, Hmmmmmmm?"

You cannot hate people unless you know them. What I oppose is Australia being swamped by foreigners ON MASS, most particulary muslims. What I hate is the feeling of my culture disappearing.

"I am nearing the end of my tether with some of the nut bags opinions on muslims - and there is just so much of them about."

All the more encouragement for those who do not want Australian to become an islamic state to rally and silence those indulged in idealistic leftist utopic optimistic wet dreams that Australia under islam will be a barrel load of fun.

Merry Christmas. Joy to you.

So, I guess I need to ask after you sterilise all the muslims; who is next in the cross hairs in this rather radical approach to social engineering. Although Hitler did have a go before.

We are not being swapped on mass.there are few Muslims here - maybe 300 thou - .02% of the population.

Our culture is no more under threat from them as it is from the Asiansation of the country - or from the cultural hegemony of the United States - what on earth is our culture and what bits of it have "disappeared"? .

But for a moment lets imagine we turn back a few would be culture eaters keen on destroying our way of life (puke) - sorry it is an automatic response these days to that phrase no matter who utters it -
Then sterilise those here - Do you favour sterilising the men or the women? men are cheaper to do by the way

There is still aropund 1.8 to 2 billion around the planet(muslims that is let alone ant one else you're terrified of) .. so the plan is.....?

You really lost me when you started with the left utopian etc mantra - far too much Piers Ackermanisms and Andrew Boltish nonsense for my way of thinking.

But hey! you must be heartened by the announcement about the Englsih tests and cultural awareness tests for new comers.

I am too - as it presents a great business opportunity - I have discussed this before - the idea is to set up businesses here and say in Iran, Iraq and the Philippnes in teaching people how to pass it - should be both easy and a money spinner - I hear "Osama Bin Everywhere butwherewecanfindhim" is awash with cash - they dont actually need to believe anything just have the capacity to get enough of the questions right and there in!

Another master stroke by the Howard gubment!

and when you read fecundity read fertility -

And I will have a great Christma

Peter, I find the terms "cross hairs" and "Hitler" offensive. Can we get beyond the redneck racist stereotype?

After stopping muslim immigration, I favour humane control of the remaining muslim culture. Exactly how that would happen, I haven't thought through.

This is not about hatred of anyone. "People grow like trees", "you grow where you are planted". A rainbow lorikeet is no more beautiful than a sparrow, each is adapted perfectly to its environment.

What I oppose are ideas and beliefs "incompatible with the peace, order and good government of our country".

What I support is humane and compassionate control of such culture.

I also hate feeling like a stranger in parts of my own country. I dislike the constant nauseous microshocks of foreign appearance and languages. Foreign languages, faces, dress, music and smells hit the subconscious with microshocks. At a personal level, I can have friends of foreign appearance and language and not be bothered much because their faces and voices are burned into my subconscious and it is a very personal interaction.

But ON MASS, my nervous system cannot deal with the constant microshocks. I am tired of it all. I physically cannot tolerate it. It is a physical/health/wellbeing issue. People have different tolerance levels for such microshocks, mine is overloaded. And I include goths, tattoos, muffin-tops, visible underwear, etc as foreign (attractive female bum crack exempted).

So you see its not about hate, its about overloading my nervous system.

Typically, kids of different races interact more freely than the older folk. Their nervous system is buzzing. The have the energy to deal with it and indulge their optimism. I am middle aged and fed up. I cant imagine how I will be when I am a "grumpy old man".

I can't tell you what your culture is, but I know mine and I see it is changing with foreign influences. Maybe you're not old enough to see change?

I want immigration stopped.

Yes Asians are far greater in numbers. I don't see any particularly incompatible ideas in Asian or US culture (also disappearing) at this time.

I thought I responded to Online East - but may be I hit the wrong Key.

Ol E you seem to be a man of a sensitive disposition being subject to all these microshocks - in a global world I fear you will be overwhelmed -

Listen less to the Alan Joneses of this world may be that will help.

Cross hairs and Hitler references simply underline an intent to eliminate other races - you siad you agreed with sterilsing muslims - Hitler had a similar appraoch to all manner of beings - my use of the terms remains legitimate.

Their is no mass swamping of any thing - relax.
Life goes on - youre the same age as I a