ronnie, thanks for the supportive words in that.

To keep my response a little bit on track I'll comment on one part of your comments "In my culture men take responsibility for the safety of their women."

I find myself with mixed views on that and hope that I'm not reading the wrong meaning into your words - if I get it wrong it's not deliberate
- I was raised to protect women, children and anybody else who may need protection.
- In my culture women are not mens posessions "their women", they are humans who take responsibilty for their own choices. I suspect that you did not mean it posessively but some do so it's worth clarifying.
- If someone needs protection or help and I am able to provide it then I will do so, the closer that person is to me emotionally the more likely I am to go out of my way and the more consequences I'll be willing to accept to do so. I don't think that gender plays a big part in that other than the reality that females face some differing risks that males. I'm more likely to hang around to see a female friend to her car late at night than a male friend because my perception is that a woman is at a greater risk of attack.
- I am not "responsible" for any other adults actions or safety, I am responsible for my own actions and choices just as other adults are for their own.

Not sure how on topic that part is other than as a reinforcement to the reality that even within our own society there are differing cultural approaches to some issues. Even if you and I agree on this stuff I know that some others see women as weaker vessels in need of physical protection and the guidance of a wiser male.

R0bert

BrainDrain,
You have an incorrect idea of why I oppose multiculturalism. It has nothing to do with any immigration policy, which i see as a different subject entirely.

My reasons for opporition to MC are practical in that it does not do what it was supposed to. Remember 'Unity in Diversity'. That simply has not happened. In fact all MC has done is divide people into groups or tribes, that compete with each other to get some of the millions of dollars that are given to MC. I saw one defination that I liked. 'MC is a system devised by politicions to give money and jobs to ethnic furhrers in exchange for votes' Or another 'Mc is one group of people being tolerant of those that are not tolerant'.

MC require ALL to accept and respect others. It breaks down when some groups bring their hatreds of some others into our society. e.g. Croats and Serbs. Or when when one group does not respect Any others culture. e.g. Arabic Muslim males do not respect any others culture and will not give even a little. Their attitude to females is completely at odds with others in our community.

MC has failed to deliver, even after about 35 years of trying and millions spent on it. That is why I support a policy of integration.

My expectations of migrants is not very high. I expect them to discard any age old hatreds their culture carries. to comply with our laws and some to alter their attitude to females. I do not consider this to be unreasonable.

Banjo,

Your comments only sound reasonable. They would BE reasonable if you applied them to Australians and expected the same of those like you as you do of those who are unlike you.

THAT is what MC means to me - treating ALL people equally under one law. (Multicultural not multilegal)

Once we manage to make ALL natural (white - like me) Aussies discard their cultural hatreds, comply with all our laws (including tax laws and speed laws, rape laws, paedophilia laws (the majority of paedophiles are members of the victims own family or social group), drug laws,etc), and respect our women by not committing violence against them within marriage, then and only then can we expect 'other' cultures to do the same here. Understand my difficulty with your 'reasonableness'?

Once we become perfect we can tell others how to behave and not before.

Anyone who comes here after spending 20,40 or 60 years in a different culture will not change overnight. Anything they do which is against our law should be subject to the same law we all surrender to. That should be enough. It is natural for people from one culture to cling with others for 'security', just ask Aussies in Earl's Court, London.

You are probably a decent bloke, and may make a good mate. I just can't agree that you see things as clearly as you could with a litle more effort.

Obviously,
Once again you prove your stupidity and inability to see beyond your own nose. Young and stupid applied ONLY to you! I know some very intelligent young people (eg. the two Hindu's who live next door. One is a Med. student working 7 days/week in her holidays and one's a Uni student who is most respectful of his elders).

Hence you need to adjust your innaccurate, wild assumption that i am in any way ageist (like i told you 3 times, i'm Anti-stupidity)

Because you are young and stupid maybe you have forgotten what happened in the 'greatest' ever war WWII? We were at war with Japan. We had Japanese living here at the time. Ask anyone who understands our history what happened. Then transfer that to a war with Lebanon (playing along for your sake only with your ludicrous notion we would join in any Israeli war with Lebanon (assuming you actually meant Hizbollah?))

If you think a war with Lebanon would be representative of a greater war than any other war so far in history... i reassert: you are Fick mate! And your ideas expressed here are pathetically stupid.

Australia the next Iraq? Civil war in the streets? (as opposed to gang battles that i participated in in my stupider youth against 'Skinheads' or my father may have in the UK when Mods hated Rockers) Within 40 years? (nice 'provable' prediction there)

I'll lay odds of five-to-one on that! Any suckers?

I and all so-called MC supporters (read what i actually wrote not what your bigotry tells you i did) are not walking on a knife edge - we are walking proud and tall in a country who's history is continuing to meander like a river on a coastal plain as it has since it's turbulence of its first century and a half was gradually matured, and will do for centuries to come.

But you only have a perspective of around fifteen years of 'conscious awareness' of the world outside your pram and so do not seem capable of viewing things correctly yet. Unlike some your age.

Sorry BrainDrain,
I should have qualified my migrant expectations with 'to the extent others in our society do'.

None of us are perfect and i don't expect migrants to be. Yes I have broken the law too. On traffic/parking matters.

There are criminals in all cultures, Only a fool would expect otherwise. I wrongly took it that this was understood.

I also appreciate your point about long held cultural practices being hard to alter. This is why I am putting some effort into trying to get our Gov, to make far more infomation available to prospective migrants. It is most unfair if a migrant unwittingly breaks the law because he was not aware. I am sure some would decline to come here if they were aware that some cultural practice, they felt strongly about, was not allowed here.

For us to say "Oh, we are multicultural" is deceivig prospective migrants and fooling ourselves.

Boaz
Your right Boaz we do need more of these demonstrations, preferably every week in every town. Eventually they’d listen. People who stick fliers randomly around town for anti multi-culti rally’s etc never seem to work, they fizzle, no matter how much support is out there. Cronulla worked because it was stuck on TV and radio like all other demonstrations are allowed to be, they don’t have to rely on fliers, or where individuals fear there faces being singled out and whacked on the tely with RACIST in capital letters above them. I would participate in any large demo close to home, but am not one to organize things. I wish you luck in what ever you one day organize and participate in.

Brain Drain

“I’m Anti-stupidity”, your anti BrainDrain I guess?

“Because you are young and stupid” once again you need to confront your ageism. Maybe your just old and grumpy, no refrain obviously, refrain.

“We were at war with Japan. We had Japanese living here at the time” So did America (USA) remember all the spies, traitors? That wasn’t nice of them.

“If you think a war with Lebanon would be representative of a greater war than any other war so far in history... i reassert: you are Fick mate! And your ideas expressed here are pathetically stupid”-BrainDrain,
I said a war with Lebanon would be bad as we would also have a civil war with Lebanon. I said world war 3 would be the worst because a considerable proportion of our army would have to stay home and try and quash civil wars. Next time don’t on purposely miss read my comments, it was quite clear and obvious what I said. Also less emotionality more rationality.

Australia the next Iraq? Civil war in the streets?”-BrainDrain, umm Riots in Cronulla? People blown up in trains in London? A taste of your multi-culti future, so Yes, except when the police state takes away our freedom to stop the violence.

Cont...