Kwv, http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=5150#62551 when you referenced some of BD's posts by post date and time. I figured it might help other readers to find the specific posts you were refering to - no criticism intended.

R0bert

Great to see some good sense on this thread - all the more so given the drivel that constitutes much which preceded it.

You go, girls :)

And no criticism taken (If the right saying?) R0bert.

Seems to me that there are still a number of men who would think that NO can mean YES. Grow up and take responsibility. Maybe it is just that most middle age guys don't look so good in "stubbies and a blue singlet" where a woman would. There is absolutely know argument in saying that women who dress provocatively should be aware of what might happen. As the father of 2 girls, one of whom is still a teenager, I would never accept that anything a girl was to do can justify rape or sexual assault.

I wish I had your confidence mate.

Jolanda: I accept that if a person hurts another they must take responsibility for their actions. – if there are no reasonable grounds. For instance, if a person behaves in a lecherous and offensive way towards a woman on the grounds that she has dressed in a way that invites his advances or somehow is asking to be raped because her attire creates such temptation in him that he cannot control himself, it is reasonable that the man must take full responsibility for his lack of character and respect for others.

However, if a person tries to justify rape with absurd notions of the woman being responsible for her rape, then I think we have reasonable grounds to condemn these ideas.

The problem I have with your comment, Jolanda, is that you also say a person must take responsibility for “bad choices”. The male makes a truly harmful, and thus truly bad choice, if he forces himself on a woman For instance: If a young girl disobeys her parents and slips into something trendy once out of Mum’s sight the consequence of rape is far disproportionate to the, in itself , harmless supposed “bad choice”. It seems to me that the consequence decides what is a bad choice rather than the other way around. Bad choices, such as this, deserves a lecture from Mum and maybe some detention – not the horror of rape..

It is clear that a woman’s choice is denied in a rape. I don’t care whether the woman is the biggest prick teaser Downunder – there is no excuse for denying a woman the right to deny a male the privilege of entering her body. No excuses. That is the Law - albeit often sidestepped by dirty lawyers, posters and certain immigrants. To justify rape with the argument that it is a consequence of the woman wearing clothing that makes the man lose control is absurd and unfair to good women and disciplined, sensible men. continued