You haven't captured the point at all Father Dave.

The art of courting involves teasing - by both parties - it is natural and fun. The problem you are attempting to describe is not with this process but with the maturity of some of the individuals involved. You are just looking for excuses if you try and attach the psychological problem of self-control to the way women dress.

Males and females have to recognise feelings of lust and desire and acknowledge that they exist rather than trying to hide them through clothing and cold showers. Being open to, and learning to understand these feelings is the key to a mature society - something the West, and Muslims have yet to grasp.

The only point Sheikh Hilali had was that free speech is a one way street in Australia and whenever a view arises that doesn't wash with mainstream thought we attempt to discredit it. All views should be expressed and heard - in the hope they challenge us and make us refine and hone our own opinion.

Maybe it's our determination to cling to the last vestages of body taboo's that are the problem rather than our having moved away from the extreme positions held by some.

The author asks about rape and marriage in Islamic countries vs our own, has he considered the same question regarding communities with much more relaxed attitudes to the human body?

Does his question take into account the other factors involved? The types of penalties dished out in some Islamic countries - especially to victims of rape who can't prove their claims might have some impact on a victims willingness to make a complaint.

The author does make some good points about those who seek freedom without responsibility and the need for us to consider the risk we take when we exercise freedom. He does not prove his point that an increase in body taboo's is the direction we should move in.

R0bert

It doesn't matter whether or not a crazed Muslim had a valid point to make, but the much more rational Dave Smith certainly does. Many females these days cross the line between looking good (a natural thing to want)and downright provocation to all a sundry - even if they are not deliberately flogging their wares to all and sundry.

After reading the article by Father Dave and I could not help but dwell on the remarkable technological achievements of the twentieth century. Mankind has made the most incredible intellectual advances in the last 100 years. But the greatest of all must be;
THE INVENTION OF THE MINI-SKIRT, LONG MAY IT REIGN OVERUS.

Leigh, in general, the point that you make is valid, but you shot yourself in the foot by referring to the good sheik as a "crazed muslim". If Father Dave (the Christian) had made the speech instead of Hilali (the Muslim), it would have completely escaped criticism. Hilali's only mistake was to choose a rather extreme example. Perhaps he should get together with Father Dave and learn how to be more moderate in his deliverance. A bit more cross-cultural dialogue would not go astray, particularly between older members of the Christian and Muslim communities. If that were to happen, both sides would stop treating the other as "the enemy".

Father Dave provides a mish-mash of populist mush: “Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali…allegedly said that if a woman dresses provocatively and gets sexually assaulted, it's her own fault.” The Sheik may have said a lot more than that, says Dave… “and I'm not going to try to defend him.” And proceeds to do. The “Islamic system” works on a “brutal logic”, he tells us, “but you’ve got to admit that the system makes sense.” For Father Dave the “brutal logic” soon becomes “solid logic”.

The logic goes something like this: The whole Islamic community recognises “the potentially destructive force of the male sex drive”. Everyone takes responsibility for “curtailing these destructive effects” (“potential” slides readily into “outcomes”). “Men are taught to pray and to take cold showers when tempted. Women, for their part, cover themselves in public. And the government does its bit by legislating that all rapists get the death penalty.”

Brutal but solid logic! It “makes sense” to Father Dave. And he thinks we could do with a bit of it in our western system “where women can dress and flirt and present themselves in public as they please, and men are expected to pretend that it doesn’t effect [sic] them.” Our under-clad women are playing with fire.

You want evidence to accompany the logic? There’s Dave’s own encounter with a cleavage – “She must have been all of 18, wearing her push-up bra, putting her best assets proudly on display to the rest of the world, in a way that didn’t leave a lot to the imagination.” And having titillated us, Dave feels bad: “I’m expected to pretend that I didn’t notice.” It’s not fair.

And there are more anecdotes (plus the Simpsons and Dave’s daughter’s tempting hors d’ouevres) to show that’s how it works in Australia. “It’s all available. It’s all on display. It appears to be all there for the taking, but God forbid that you should make any sort of tangible response!”

According to Dave, most Australian women are unaware of “the rapacious ferocity of the male sex drive, especially in testosterone-filled teenagers.” Silly women.