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The Forum > Article Comments > Sheikh Hilali had a point! > Comments

Sheikh Hilali had a point! : Comments

By Dave Smith, published 14/11/2006

It’s about time we Australians took an honest look at the effect dress codes in our culture have on our society.

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Dave Smith has managed to transform Hilali's "raw" meat into the more refined and tasty French cuisine's hors d'oeuvres.

His piece is an unsubtle innuendo of shameless apologetics for the Sheikh at its best, that not even Keysar Trad could outdo.

SEE:"The Mufti Of Lakemba is a Great Threat to Australia"
http://www.con.observationdeck.org
Posted by Themistocles, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 1:43:53 PM
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So what about the example of people owning nice and expensive things - can one steal them and claim that there was an over-riding biological urge to do so? Does this lesser their culpability? Can one steal a fast car and claim that there was an urge to get somewhere and that the fact that someone presented a fast car was tempting fate -

I feel upset about being a man and reading such nonsense that claims men cannot control themselves from those nasty lying temptresses. Get your head out of your porn mag and realise that both men and women dress certain ways so that they may look good - it may show healthiness, self confidence, it may even show an indication that the person is wanting to find a partner - but does it say that they want to be objectified and seen as possessions that remove moral culpability - or pieces of cat food - this is a shameful way to regard a fellow person.
Posted by Michael 06, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 1:49:49 PM
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Charlock
You write: "In Sweden statistics show Muslim men are responsible for 68% [sorry- i wish i could rememebr where i read this] of rape and sexual assaults."

What are you really telling us? You read somewhere, sometime, some un-named person alleging that some unsourced statistics show Muslim men are alleged to be responsible for precisely 68% of rape and sexual assaults in Sweden. You don't know now where these statistics come from, you can't say whether they are valid or reliable, and we can't check - but the 68% stuck indelibly in your mind. Funny thing, the memory!

A quick google shows me the source of some claims of this nature - extreme right-wing Swedish bloggers, some being so bizarre as to suggest jihad by rape. When challenged, one blogger-author backs right down. See Winds of Change.NET - "Sweden, Rape and Responsible Speech" by Robin Burk March 4, 2005 http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/sweden_rape_and_responsible_speech-print.php

You might also like to read H. Von Hofer, “Crime Statistics as Constructs: The Case of Swedish Rape Statistics”, European Journal on Criminal Policy and Research, Volume 8, Number 1, March 2000, pp. 77-89(13)

Von Hoffer, a criminologist from Stockholm University, Sweden, describes ways different factors affect official crime statistics. He shows that comparing crime levels is extremely hazardous even when based on official crime statistics. He looks at rape statistics in Sweden and explains the statistical, legal and substantive factors that influence statistics. Von Hoffer shows that changes in statistical routines, the legal definition of rape and changes over time all influence the statistics significantly. If you are going to use statistics appropriately, you need a thorough knowledge of these factors e.g. an increase in rape cases reported is not the same as an increase in rapes.

Von Hoffer draws no conclusions about rape and ethnicty, race or religion in Norway (or elsewhere). There's a version of his article at http://www.crim.su.se/pdf/Artiklar/euro12.pdf
Posted by FrankGol, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 1:54:11 PM
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Its funny.... since this debate and the shakey sheikh's surreal sermon, I've been reflecting on dress codes and culture.

Does anyone else notice that females generally are showing wayyyyy more skin than we guys ? No, don't panic, I haven't suddenly seen the Sheikh light, but it is quite noticable.

Guys.. suit, trousers...etc.
Girls... Mini-skirt/business combo thingy.. spagetti strap tops.. mid rifs showing, cleavage...shoulders.. etc..

Does it occur to anyone that there might have been some very calculated marketing pushes behind all this ?

But why not to guys as well ? aah.. probably because females have 18 times less testosterone than we blokes :) and they don't think about sex at least 100 times a day.. (I dunno the figure but its high for men)

I've said my piece in other threads about general modesty, on both sides.
But think about this for a moment.

Next time you are at a public mixed company function, just imagine if suddenly you (as a bloke) zipped out to the change room and came back with as much flesh (oops..I mean 'meat') showing as 80% of the girls.

Somehow, I think there might be a bit of a reaction and the word "SECURRRRITY" would be heard from the PA system.

Maybe the increasingly absent female covering is a vicous ploy by we males to re-shape them in ever more enticing wrapping ? aah..ITS OUR FAULT ?

PS. check out Bolts column and blog.. another opportunity to comment our selves into jibbering idiots :)

*wanders off*.......
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 2:01:39 PM
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Hilali overstepped the bounds of courtesy. As a migrant to this country his opinion matters not one bit outside his own society members. His ignorance was well and truelly on display.
My thought is that young women do go to extremes in their dress, that is the fault of the 'fashionistas' who dictate the fashions that young women adhere to.
Much of the blame for bad behaviour of young people can be pointed at the sellers of alcohol and drugs. They are in it for profit and do not give a damn what happens to the foolish young people who are too immature to handle the stuff that kills even older people.
I would hate to see the day that our young ladies...and older were forced to wear ugly sacks and black bags like the unfortunate muslim women. It is an alien and hideous look. I like to see Australian females in their cool fashions . God made our bodies,let us rejoice in them. A little bit of modesty would not go astray.
Posted by mickijo, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 2:01:51 PM
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THESE PRIESTS ARE IN IT TOGETHER

I find it amusing how priests (Dave and Sheikh Hilali) of opposing faiths share the same misconceptions.

Sheikh Hilali makes firebrand remarks to boost his standing in the Muslim community. His words paint Muslim people, men and woman, into a corner. In many cases it forces them to publicly choose Sheikh Hilali's inevitably devout interpretation of dress codes and the status of women.

Meanwhile Dave gives wet (society to blame) and implicit support for his fellow monotheist’s views.

It doesn't matter what young women wear. There is something called SECULAR LAW which democratically stands above religious doctrine (misconceptions) in Australian society.

Male priests are the last people one should consult about female dress and rape. They have political barrows to push and concepts largely developed in the Middle Ages.

Their shared "boys will be boys" excuse doesn't wash. Sexual assault against woman (or boys...) for whatever excuse is a serious crime under agreed Australian law.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 14 November 2006 2:08:01 PM
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