Oliver, thank you for your consideration and your posts. I find the similarities between Mithras and Jesus amusing and cannot see much reason for a wide consideration of difference in approaches attributing different characteristics to either individual as some probably do (christians for example).

Given the influence the roman empire has had on both religions the similarities might partially be expected.

All,
permit me to correct an apparent misundersanding of me.

Unlike HL it matters not a whit to me what religion you choose to adopt personally nor even if you adopt one at all.

This is because, despite all appearances of perceptions to the contrary.... I AM NOT RELIGIOUS!!

I am not proselytising (christianity, gnosticism or anything else)
as HL frequently does on OLO insisting that he contains the one true way to God for all and that we are damned to hell if we don't accept verbatim his own (held in common with a number of other's) belief.

I will defend vigourously the denigration of practically any religion HL tries to demonise, that i have some understanding of when i can see quite clearly how deceived he has been and he tries to share that deception with those who read his rantings.

I can quote the Bible because i find it interesting as a source of practically unadulterated history of the time of a figure who has influenced more than almost any other human has and can see a lot of value in doing as Christ did (including more than any Bible claims to show. Refer EB Szekely's works) not because i am in any way christian, (HL will surely misinterpret THAT quote!) it just makes a deal of common sense to me as a moral guide.
(cont.)

I can claim God 'exists' (as a combination of the sum total of all that is and that of which we currently have little or no understanding or knowledge) as a convenience for uniting 'everything' under a three letter term that can have various concepts attached to it, without having a 'religion'. I have belief, which is currently able to be updated, as various pieces are revealed to my awareness. It is able to encompass the beliefs of many religions and of non-religion (science). I seek commonality between different beliefs, not to find the 'perfect' one.

I can claim an ultimate 'self-generated' (i.e. upto MY conscious choice) ability to re-unite with this 'God' (and in that sense only be considered re-ligare-ous), or more precisely claim that i was never actually separate from it but that it was partially 'within' me the whole time but my consciousness usurped it's role as Divine Orderer/Creator within MY 'Universe', and thus bridge any gap between Humanists and Religion. (except the Humanists belief that 'nothing else' is 'out there')

I cannot help if other human's incapability of fully appreciating these sometimes contradictory-seeming statements within their own perceptions causes them confusion but i do believe i deserve greater credit and less pigeonholing than some seem capable of here, mostly perhaps due to the limits of a 350 word post and the economy's that insists upon.

As for the Question how does God Exist? My answer is: How can 'He' Not? Allowing for a far less limiting interpretation of God and 'His Plan' than most religions seem to be able to confine 'Him(Her)' to. that is.

Part I

Porter Barrington (Royal Publishers):

SIN

In considering the question of sin, we are faced with two startling
facts.

The first fact is that man makes so little of sin. To some, it is
an illusion -- a religious mirage -- the invention of some fanatic.
It is denied, joked about, and laughed at by man. Many who believe
sin to be a fact continue in it with little thought of its penalty.

The second fact is that God makes so much of sin. God said, "The
soul who sins shall die." (Ezek.l8:20 OT). "The wages of sin is
death" (Page 273 -- Rom.6:23). All sins are an abomination to
God (Prov.6:l6-l9 OT), and He hates those who work iniquity. (Ps.5:
5 OT). Moses ssaid, "...All who behave unrighteously, are an abomin-
ation to the Lord your God (Deut.25:l6 OT). Sin is an evil force.
Its presence cannot be escaped in this life, but it can be overcome
by the power of God....

JUDGMENTS

In the Scriptures, we are instructed to"rightly divide the word of
truth" (Page 372 - 2 Tim.2:l5). This is most essential when studying
the judgments. Do not endeavor to make all the judgments conform to
the theory of one "general judgment." The "general judgment" theory is
the invention of religion and is not taught in the Word of God. There
are five separate judgments revealed in the Bible, and they differ
as to time, place, and purpose. Yet, they all have one thing in
common: the Lord Jesus Christ is the judge (Page l67 -- John 5:22).

....see part II.

Part II

Porter Barrington

JUDGMENTS (con't)

In the first judgment, the sins of the believers have already been
judged in Christ on the cross.
...

In the fourth judgment, all nations are to be judged at the Second Coming of Christ.

In the fifth judgment, the wicked dead are to be judged at the great
white throne....

__________
JESUS ON HELL:

Luke l6:l9

There was a certain rich man which was clothed in purple
and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: and there
was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his
gate, full of sores,
And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the
rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his
sores.
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried
by the angels into Abraham's bosom; the rich man also died,
and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and
seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me,
and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in
water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son...

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great
gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you
cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest
send him to my father's house:

For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest
they come to this place of torment.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them
hear them.

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from
the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Let’s religiously follow some NT writings for the ‘bible believer’ – to the letter:

· There is no other name under heaven, (Jesus) by which a man can be saved. There is one true Christian Church and whoever believes on the name of the Lord..Jesus Christ, shall be saved, while others are condemned.

· Allegiance to Christianity forbids one to make friends with "the world" (love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, whoever loves the world, the love of the father is not in him.") Paul cursed the Jews in the New Testament, numerous times. Martin Luther, a Christian, taught they should be killed like pigs.

· You are to have no relationships outside the church; they are not to be "unequally yoked with unbelievers."

· A Christian is instructed to marry only one, which becomes his property. His wife cannot talk in church – questions of a religious nature must be asked at home. Women are to keep silence in the church, obey their husbands as unto the Lord, and call him "Lord" as did Sarah (all in NT). They are to give him sex as a part of her duty and submit.

· God is 'loving" only to the degree you obey and fall in line. If not, you are toast just as with any other "god" The Jesus of the Gospels is NOT the same as in the book of Revelation. The fundy Jesus comes back with a Rod of Iron to threaten and beat the crap out of those who don't obey and love God

The following is strongly implied, for the biblical literalists:

· The Koran must be reviled and the Christian bible upheld (the Koran and the Bible sprang from the same culture, something few realize or think about).

· Critical thinking is to be abhorred as it runs counter to the examining of evidence that runs contrary to their (Fundy Christian) established belief system.

Relda,

I share your scepticism concerning following biblical scripture verbatim.

I have some points concerning your observations:

The first biblical book, Genesis Chap 1 and the entire last book of Revelation clearly show that the Entire Bible between those two books (old and new testaments) is not intended to be taken by all quite that literally (Genesis tells us God did not create the sun, moon and stars until the fourth 'day' and yet the evening and the morning were the first day and the second day and the third (when he created the plants, BEFORE the sun, moon and stars!)

Christians were directed not to marry unless they found it impossible to resist the will of the flesh (and love of a 'good' woman). Paul to the Corinthians, Ch 7: 'It is good for a man not to 'touch' a woman' (so as to remain a virgin pure unto God and Jesus).

He understood this was a trial too strong to be be lived up to by many and so 'permitted' (tolerated) marriage to one woman. He also was a biblical Sex Discrimination Officer: A woman hath not power over her own body, but the husband. LIKEWISE the husband hath not power over his own body but the wife! (1 Cor 7:4)

The bible uses much allegory and parable to teach those without the wit to understand the higher truth and mystery. It also contains the higher Truth's for those who can determine them and is thus useful for all mentalities (except the proud)

Jews may have been used (perhaps in translation to english) to identify unbelievers in Jesus and killing can be meant to destroy lack of faith - ask HL for a better awareness of this than i can offer.

cont.