God is loving always and gives love to all. He does not force people to follow him or his will but gives fredom of choice and then allows us to experience for ourselves the consequences that must be allowed to follow (much like any decent parent would do if their life did not depend upon their kid's survival).

The big difference between man and God is that God realises man is just a shell for His spirit which is everlasting and it matters not if the shell dies or suffers. Man just does not ever understand this fully. Unless he awakens to the Truth through long, hard work of mind and spirit.

Could you explain how over a thousand years of Jewish scriptural history that was spent at war with various Arab tribes and Persians, Greeks and Romans, and that was almost entirely re-written (a New Testament)under Roman editorial control a hundred years after Jesus 'died' is in any way the same culture of one Arab who died in 632 AD and who seemingly hated Jews while accepting Jesus as a prophet?

If you read and understood the Bible at all I do not believe your last comment could have been made in honesty.

Hl,

sorry but by writing as you did i tuned out completely.

That is my failing i acknowledge, but if i want to read the Bible word for word i'll do it in my own time not when you insist i do, ty.

I think congratulations are in order as i did not observe a direct attack on misunderstood gnosticism this time, and perhaps you are capable of learning a little in that regard, but maybe that was just because i did but briefly scan over all you wrote?

BD,

In the 1970s, Lawerence Kolhberg evaluated morlity, including the idea of "good" and "bad":

http://www.xenodochy.org/ex/lists/moraldev.html

In his studies he set up moral conflicts and analysed how people justified their response. Why there responded in a certain why was more important than how the subjects responded. For example, a subject might be asked is okay to steal to say a life. [Actually, it would embedded in the scenario]. Many Developmental Psych. books from the 1970s will give Kohlberg a few pages. Worth a look given your interest.

I guess most gods sit in the mid-range of the Kohlberg hierarchy. The gods of Abraham, Moses, and, Revelation [which might reflect Daniel?], for example. Several historical people; e.g., Jesus or Elenor Roosevelt, probably would rank higher than war gods from the Jehovah (El Baal,Mars or Thor. Guess this allows the State and Church to apply a double standard. For example, I saw on TV this week a documentary on the Black Plague. In 1348, the Christian Church in burnt many Jewish people alive, for bringing the pestilence upon humanity. At least that's what the peole were told. The real reason was the high level of debt owed to the Jews. That is, bad was portrayed, as good, in the name of the Lord.

Ever noticed how clerics seem to be less than vocal on issues of war and state control. Often suggesting in certain circumstances killing is justified. The rub is that priests and misnisters in the modern era don't fight in the front line and kill, themselves.

Freud's Ego, Superego and Id (the it) is a dynamical model. Old, but, Freud did feel the model was really a metaphor for a neurology that would be someday understood. Herein, the Ego arbitrates between good (conscience) and evil (immediate self-gratification).

Sells,

Assume you have decided not to reply.

Obviously, you can't refute my notion that, in analytical sense, Jesus should be treated NO DIFFERENTLY than Mythras and other gods. History and anyltic processes, show both gods (JC & M) , as "projections of the mind"; i.e, neurologic effects of ecology, culture, familialism, fear, hope and conditioning, and the like.

Good, Sells. Your silence screams. You have led us to the best answer tothe question; "How does God (or Gods) exist?"...

-- Gods exist, as hypothetical constructs of some minds: This conclusion is the most probable positive heuristic. Moreover, the existence of any god is a degraded heuristic, and, more, the notion of Jesus' substitutionary ransom, as a member of tri-godhead, is a tiny subset of wider religionism. --

Part 1
How does G-D/Zeus exist? Several topics have now been discussed which, on their own, remain a
little obscure. Yet, when brought together, they help illumine each other and throw added light on the search for truth about mankind's ultimate mystery.

Thoughts about Zeus were mentioned by Oliver(21/11/06), and Sells(22/11/06), Satan by ronnie
peters(24/11/06), Greek insights to ancient Egyptian history by Oliver(27/11/06). Old Testament
scholar Robert Pfeiffer once wrote, “It is from the discussion of opposite ideas that the truth or an
approximation thereto might be obtained.”

Paradoxically, religion can be both the cause and cure of mental illness which is a very important social issue today. Most people try to steer clear of the stigma surrounding this phenomenon. Yet
surely, study of the human mind is perhaps the greatest adventure!

Sigmund Freud, the papa of psychiatry, wrote as his last testament “Moses and Monotheism” in
which he demoted Moses to an Egyptian apostate who borrowed his ideas from the Pharaoh
Ikhnaton. Freud considered all religion was a neurosis and would ultimately disappear.

Sells has demonstrated how humans will respond when their cherished beliefs are attacked. This
reaction occurred to Freud's final outburst.

Egyptian history had been accepted as the standard by which all other ancient histories were
measured and compared (Sir Alan Gardiner: “Egypt of the Pharaohs”). Yet nowhere in Egyptian
documents was there mentioned the story of Hebrew slaves living in Egypt for over 400 years.
The story of the Exodus to freedom has been faithfully recounted for approximately 3500 years.
A fairy tale?

(contin) Shmuel

Part 2
When did the Exodus occur? Did Akhnaton(Ikhnaton) live before or after Moses? An
amazing intuitive insight occurred when applying simple modern astronomical knowledge
to the story of Joshua commanding the sun to stand still,(and the sun returning 10 degrees
in Isaiah). Such a phenomenon could not be local, and rather a world wide event. The
search for Egyptian literature conveying allusions to this phenomena resulted in the finding
of the Papyrus Ipuwer which then had to be dated. The reconstruction of ancient history
was begun by Immanuel Velikovsky which continues today by fallible workers.

In “Oedipus and Akhnaton”, Velikovsky's initial insight, he linked Greek legend with
Egyptian history, which in turn led to “Worlds in Collision”. The scholarly world reacted
with fury and immediately denounced the work.

Sell's does not agree with rogue comets(Apocalypse now:...9/11/05). Nor does leading
Australian astronomer Duncan Steele. Eric Lerner's work on Plasma Cosmology claims
the Big Bang never happened, and considers Velikovsky belongs to the lunatic fringe.

Yet, Nature/G-D/The Great Architect(?/?/?) recently demonstrated close confirmation of a theoretical reconstruction from the ancient mythological record. Compare Aeon/a symposium on myth and science/Vol.III: No.3, Oct 1993 pp39-48 with Southern SKY Nov/Dec 1994 pp27-30. In
4Q175 Testimonia “comet”=”tbhs”. What's the bet, Jesus didn't carry this document(or a similar one) around in his pocket? Cried Job, “Ktar yny' ht'w” h.bm bwya rpsm.

Recently, Australian scientist Wal Thornhill has co-authored a work “Thunderbolts of the Gods”,
well worth reading in the current ferment. Zeus is often depicted as wielding a thunderbolt. In the fifth century BCE Heraclitus wrote “It is the thunderbolt that steers the universe!” For further info
on this go to http://.www.kronia.com which will link to many other sites.

Careful consideration of these ideas will hopefully help mould our ideas to a better understanding
of “How does G-D exist?” The Electric Universe is fast becoming the exciting way of the future!
Hope you don't consider this drivel Sells.

Shmuel

Brain Drain,

A bit of history with regard to common links and culture relating to the Koran and Bible: Three of the world's major religions - the monotheist traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - were all born in the Middle East and are all inextricably linked to one another. Christianity was born from within the Jewish tradition, and Islam developed from both Christianity and Judaism.

The stability of interaction of cultures within the framework of the Mediterranean civilization was connected to basic principles of a uniform outlook based on the ancient culture and Abrahamic religious tradition. The consolidating basis of the medieval Muslim world, consisting of three Caliphates (Baghdad, Fatimids and Cordovan) and various other Emirates, were tolerance and pluralism. This basic tolerance can relate to the premise found in all three religions, “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might” (Deut. 6:5). And “you shall love your neighbor as yourself” (Lev. 19:18).

It is obviously important to note, that the openness to dialogue and the fruitfulness of interaction of Muslim and European cultures was determined by the circumstance that they were generated and developed in the area of a uniform Mediterranean civilization. The 15th century, however, became a turning point in the history of the Muslim world with the conquest of Byzantium and the development of the Ottoman Empire; the basis of the consolidation of the Muslim world were no longer the principles of tolerance, pluralism, and openness to dialogue with other civilizations, but a rigidly conservative religious vision. No doubt, the other two ‘great’ religions of Judaism and Christianity suffer (and have suffered) similar fits and starts.

Islamic scholar, Fazlur Rahman is correct, "Free thought and thought are synonymous, and one cannot hope that thought will survive without freedom.... Islamic thought, like all thought, equally requires a freedom by dissent, confrontation of views, and debate between ideas."