Quite often I think to myself that we'd all be better off if all the silly old religious nutters of all persuasions would keep their fundie ideas to themselves.

Then I wake up.

Tit_for_tat

Horrendous chaos I imagine.

I wouldn't advocate the war in Iraq or a war in Saudi Arabia, but I'd say that in the context of the war in terror, Saudi Arabia would be near the top of the list and Iraq way down.
I guess my point is that if the western world was really motivated primarily by security rather than economic reasons (of course both factor in, but we never hear about the economic reasons) than the focus should be on Saudi Arabia.

But it isn't.

fleurette - "explain the joke to me?"

Perhaps if a loved one had ever been the victim of an attack by a gang of Lebanese Muslims it wouldn’t be such a joke. Read the world news every morning, access the internet daily. If you wish me to provide news reports dealing with violent and antisocial behaviour by Muslims around the world, I will do so. Meanwhile, check out France (hundreds of vehicles torched daily in an Islamic ‘infitada’ against French police); Belgium (anti-Jewish riots by Muslim immigrants when I was there); Skandinavia (soaring rape stats and violence due to immigrant Muslims); Indonesia (Christian schoolgirls beheaded, and repeated murder of Christians); Christians and other non-Muslims are persecuted in every Muslim country; UK (street riots in several towns started by Muslim intrusion) – need I continue? Is there some other religion whose followers consistently behave in this fashion everywhere they settle?

“How can you fear something that has not occurred?”

Where have you been living? If you live in Sydney, you must be aware of the high level of crimes like car jacking, drive by shootings, ATM ramraiding and armed robberies. 80% of the offenders are MOMEAs (check NSW Police online). Did you miss the ‘revenge attacks’ carried out by armed Muslim gangs on innocent people?

“You’ve fallen straight into the hands of government propaganda”

The high level of crime carried out by M.E. Muslims is not ‘propaganda’, it is fact. Since the 1980s Sydney people have been subjected to so many crimes committed by Muslims that the M.E. Crime Squad was created.

“We’re not all Christian in the West”

I stated that the west is (nominally) Christian and democratic (meaning that we elect our governments). The US may have little in common with France on the surface but both countries are part of modern western civilization and both have Judeo-Christian heritages. Its quite clear which countries belong to the West, regardless of when women got the vote in what country– we are bound together by our common heritage not our minor differences.
[cont.]

fleurette [cont.]

‘Either that or you believe all refugees are criminals’

I don’t believe that anyone should be accepted as a refugee until their story is thoroughly checked out. Until that time, they should be detained. Or are you seriously suggesting that Australia should have an open borders policy? Or that would-be refugees should be given the opportunity to melt into the community as thousands did in the UK? Australia’s security trumps refugees rights.

“I’ll give you a myriad of reasons explaining why the US is really to blame.”

I’m sure you will - but don’t waste your time, I’ve heard them all.

I often disagree with George Pell, but he is a member of the church in a (nominally) Christian country. He is not an import whose loyalty to Australia is highly questionable, neither does he preach in a foreign language. His words can be accessed and understood, and unlike al-Hilaly’s words, they cannot be ‘misinterpreted, misunderstood or mistranslated’.

‘Expressing an opinion that a lot of people disagree with.’

You fail to mention the thousands of followers who agree wholeheartedly and who cheered him to the echo. There is a rally for the sheik this weekend in Sydney, so we can see exactly how many Muslims ‘disagree’ with his words.

I do not believe that every Muslim is a threat but immigration from Islamic countries has been a disaster for the West. Every European country is tightening its laws to restrict Muslim immigration, but I guess you know better than any European government.

Hi Turn left & right,

" Horrendous chaos I imagine. "

Absolutely. If a person like Saddam, murderer of fellow muslims i.e kurds, kuwaitis is hailed as a hero in muslim world & seeing the reaction of muslims (i.e london blasts, madrid bombs etc.), we can only imagine the reaction of muslims if saudi arabia is attacked.

As you said, the murderers of 9/11 are mostly saudis and it is a fact that their inspiration, finaces are based in mecca. So, Mecca should be the actual target of U.S. But the fool George Bush diverted all his forces to Iraq and got messed up.

As for me, I wont advocate Iraq war or War on Saudi. I wish these would have happened

1. After 9/11, all the muslims from middle-east origin in US should have been deported or atleast thorougly profiled/examined by FBI.

2. The U.S should have cut all the relations with the muslim world. (in other words, not interferd in their life. let them suffer) It should not have sent aid to any of the muslim countries.

3. Rather, it should have focussed on finding alternative resources for oil.

4. And finally, it should have warned, in the case of any muslim attack, that country will get shape-less.

But, the fool GWB did foolish things and the US / the whole world is suffering now.

Well, Tit_for_tat, I suppose that's one solution, but can you, (and should you) attempt to block off an entire world religion? This is a billion people worldwide, millions in the US.

Sure, 9/11 was a terrible thing, but can you just chalk that up to an entire religion?

We've the lessons of hitler to tell us what happens when you treat an entire culture/religion/people as 'the enemy,' though I'll concede your approach isn't a 'kill em all' kind of spiel, but rather an 'ignore it and they'll go away.'

Having the west not interfere in middle eastern politics is a good idea in theory... at this point, I'd just advocate a greatly reduced role there.

As for the deporting idea... nope. Not practical and not fair. Believe it or not, fundamentalists are still a minority of Islam, as much as they're painted otherwise.

If we had a billion fundamentalists walking the earth, you'd know it.