Mercurius,

That you feel the need to remind people of the past actions of the Govenor General, the Archbishop, or even a previous generation, is based on the totally unfounded assumption that those critical of members of the Muslim faith are selectively critical, rather than objectively critical.

To jump to this conclusion betrays your view that Muslims are not part of our society, but just permanent guests, since only guests customarily are not subject to the same level of critical scrutiny as the regulars.

It's becoming nauseating to hear all these tacit white supremicists shielding their pet Others from our totally justified criticisms of them. We think they are equals, not guests!

The most disrespectful act of all is to not subject someone to criticism, for it implies they are unable to transform, learn from their mistakes, do someting about it, etc. You'de only treat someone you couldn't care less about like that!

This is so irresponsible, since this discourse of victimhood brings a sense of undeserved legitimacy to these bigot's hatred of us, bigots raised to believe that they are more pure than the rest of us and as a result don't want to have "aussy" or "skip" friends but prefer to herd together into violent packs of 'rednecks' to intimidate and assault others, justifying all of their problems as the result of imaginary racism supposedly acted upon them by would be employers, the media, the schools, etc.

What laughable crap!

They believe this fantasy because of their racist herd instinct, but you condone and push it because you consider them children, incapable of autonomy.

You will be partly responsible for the next young man who's head is kicked in by ten of these middle eastern savages, for you are giving the green light to the vilest bigots that have ever walked the earth.

When a Muslim leader abuses freedom of speech, there really ARE tangible effects, people really DO justify their crimes on this basis!

The wisest thing Alla did was ban alcohol! Just imagine the convoys of December 11 but drunk!

There's no doubt Sheik was speaking about sydney gang rapes.

Now, let's look at the girl who was raped:

18-year-old white girl, was raped 25 times by up to 14 muslim men including Skaf in 2000, was being Australian.

What was her dress?
A typical dress suited for job-interview. (may be a skirt which exposed the meat (legs) to a small extent.

What was she doing?
Sitting on a train, dressed for a job interview in her best suit, and reading The Great Gatsby.

What did the rapist(s) say during rape?
she was a slut, an "Aussie pig" as they called her later, while boasting: "I'm going to f--- you Leb style."

What did the the father of rapist(s) say?
"What do they expect to happen to them? Girls from Pakistan don't go out at night."

What did Sheik Feiz Mohammad say about that?
A victim of rape every minute somewhere in the world," Sheik Feiz Mohammad told 1000 people at Bankstown Town Hall last year. "Why? No one to blame but herself. She displayed her beauty to the entire world ... strapless, backless, sleeveless, nothing but satanic skirts, slit skirts, translucent blouses."

what did Sheik Hilaly say during that ramadan sermon?

"A woman possesses the weapon of seduction. It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us ... then it's a look, then a smile, then a conversation ... then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years."

Now, people who defend the sheik please come up with some other stuff.

What Sheik Hilaly said at the close of Ramidan it truly offensive to every civilised woman and every honourable Muslim male. However what he said off the cuff while under Media pressure reveals his real thoughts. He is not about enhancing our society and the personal lives of people in our society. He is a political extremist seeking to undermine civilised society especially the USA and the lives of those with whom he cannot accept.

He ought to learn of Joseph taken as a slave, who while in Egypt saved their Nation from starvation, Of Daniel als taken as a slave who became the chief counsellor in Babylon to the King. They became one of the people to advance the life of the people who had taken them captive.

One whose life is primitive in thought and destructive in intent is not teaching the happiness of all mankind but is political subservise.
He fosters extremism, subservism and hatred. These attitudes are not PEACE and LOVE.

I will do nothing but condemn the sheik and his choice of words, and furthermore, every scum-of-the earth mongrel who thinks that they can treat a woman with any amount of disrespect. Rape is the lowest of all acts.

I don't think youtube is a credible source to be quoting to reflect the views of an entire religion.

Remember when we f_cked up heaps of aborigines? These probably have more social issues like rape and abuse in their respective communities than muslims do in Australia. A difference here is that there is no union of Aboriginal Australians to allow for someone like the sheik to come out and reflect their ideas of why this is happening - however immoral those views may be. We've grown used to Indigenous issues here in Australia but not these Islamic ones, no. Australia has made many mistakes, and let us not forget. I can see where some muslims are coming from when they speak of us (Westerners) so poorly. And even if everyone else can't, at the very least, we are a mostly lucky, rich and highly-developed country. Of course they are going to be jealous, along with the rest of the world who isn't up there with us. I feel, however, that I should mention that this is not even close to an excuse for vile behaviour in our society.

I believe that conversations (or "debates") like this foster too much hatred, often uneducated and not warranted - and of course history has taught us that such thinking can easily lead to radicalism, conflict and later bloodshed. Let us think and converse with the same passion, but lets invite compassion too.

If anything, the whole vibe of this conversation and the issues behind it, teach us that we should assess the morality of our foriegn policy, pay greater attention to the train of thought behind all malicious crimes in our country, and evaluate the place of all religion in our society.

Abyss... the view I took from Mercurious's comments wasn't excusing the sheikh. Reading his posts, he seemed as annoyed as anyone, but was asking people to look at the bigger picture - that goes for this thread and the other two similar ones posted on the same day.

To me, this is what is frustrating here. No one is really excusing the sheikh's comments, but those who are putting them in context are being accused of being apologists.
From what I see, David_Boaz isn't either, though he's arguing that society needs more modesty.

(Guys, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

So we're pretty much all agreed the Sheikh's comments are worthy of condemnation. Great.
So rather than form a lynch mob (which appears to be the goal of some irate posters) some have tried to place his comments in context, and when they do, they are being harangued.

Stop. Think. Calm down.

Bear in mind these kinds of statements, these kinds of issues, these kinds of problems have been around for a long time and we're still a functioning society.

There are bigger issues that warrant more attention, yet are being all but ignored. Why are we more pissed off about the comments of one sheikh, than the horrifying rape statistics that believe it or not, isn't a problem caused by muslims.

Sanity and clarity people. Hold on to it if you can.