wow,

"Mohammad (the alleged prophet) was never mentioned in the Bible. He does not bring any new revelation nor does he "prophesy" anything the bible hasn’t already mentioned."

you know, some times i feel real sorry for Peter Sells, secular humaism and the sharp eye of Pericles (what a difference one letter makes) are the least of his problems when those who proffess to be of the same faith have so much trouble with basic comprehension.

To anti-bigot
Certain westerners are working towards convincing western terrorists (like USA administration) and expecting the likes of Hilaly, Israel, certain Islamic groups, Nazi groups etc. to develop a sophisticated approach to resolving conflict and overcoming their bigoted thinking - as the good Christians have done and try to do.

It is very much a bigoted and racist approach on your behalf to turn a blind eye to Bush administrations terrorist attacks on Iraq and its peoples while criticising Hilaly et al. Moreover, you do not seem outraged by the Stromfront and other racist western sites. But that is just your bigotry destroying your objectivity.

It is a bigoted response to suggest from my reading that Hilaly is comparable to the hardcore extremists. I don’t know if he is just appeasing other Islamic leaders or is a hardcore terrorist as you claim.

Any old soldier will tell you that there are hardcore men and women (terrorists) in this world who care nothing for ordinary people and only see the destruction of those lives and their peace and happiness as a means to achieve their own ends. I think a lot of western "christians" have the same mind set as Islamic terrorists. In the west they are constrained by the rule of law and that they have too much to lose by acting violently on their hatreds and ambitions. I think the west needs to hold firm to the high ground rather than behaving like propaganda-conned thugs.

My comparison with Hanson was in the way the media gave more credit to her waffling than was deserved – as is the case with Hilaly. Your bigotry prevented you from seeing this and led you to believe I was implying something else that was also based on your bigoted opinion of the persons concerned.

You also use perjorative labels - impies that you have a bigoted attitude.

Anti-bigot I think your response was misguided by your bigotry and exposure to propaganda rather than any real understanding of the problems discussed (nothing impied there I am sure you are a nice bigot).

relda,

>>The Jewish Torah and the Qur'an have parallel stories of Abraham. For the Jews and Christians, Isaac inherits God's blessing. For Muslims, Ishmael is the chosen son. God commands Abraham to sacrifice his son. All three religions revere Abraham's most spectacular test of faith.<<

Actually most of the Qur'an is riddled with parallel stories to the Bible. Islam will remain parallel to God's true revelations as long as it continues to deny God's ultimate sacrifice for humanity - dying on the cross.

(For Pericles) – Isaac was a miracle – as promised by God - to the infertile Sarah and Abraham when they were well in their 90’s.

By contrast Ishmael was the result of an impulse liaison between Abraham and an Egyptian servant – definitely not in God’s plan.

Islam is a tribal derivative of Ishmael.

Jesus is a descendant of Isaac.

The two clans are separate and as relda justly said: run parallel.

(Pericles – I know that meant absolutely nothing to you - but there…)

Back to relda –

What you failed to understand from the Abrahamic sacrificial experience is that God provides a substitute lamb who takes the place of the "chosen son": namely Isaac.

That substitute is Himself - God becoming man (Jesus) to save humanity.

Islam’s denial of Jesus' substitutional redemptive sacrifice places it therefore as a cult - and there are thousands of them around.

Islam is just numerically large but it does not make it any truer religion.

I repeat: the only way to know God is through Jesus.

Others will always offer lies and “parallel stories”.

Coach,
The Abraham story appears to strongly suggest the imperative to submit totally to the will of YHWH (at all costs) – most pervasively a Muslim sentiment. It was fully Abraham’s intention to slaughter his son. Undoubtedly, the story teller, with greater objectivity in mind, perceived of a merciful and ‘kindlier’ God giving out this test for fidelity - albiet, a harsh one. The ‘Jesus story' parallels this, ironically as the faithful son.

Christianity at its inception hasn't the doctrines or formulas of substitutional atonement, resurrection of the body, the native depravity of man (original sin) and endless punishment. Basically, the earliest Christians taught that man is the image of God, and that the in-dwelling Deity will lead him to holiness. To the early Christians Christ was living - an agonized hour was lost in the thought of glory and triumph. The symbols of the Catacombs, like every other indication of early teaching, show the glad, bright, loving character of the Christian faith. It was a religion of joy and not of gloom, of life and not of death, of tenderness not of severity.

Christianity was almost from the first a Greek religion. Its primal records were all written in Greek language; it spread rapidly and successfully among nations either of Greek descent, or those, which had been Graecised by the conquest of Alexander. Christianity was a religion of "sweetness and light." The Greek fathers exemplified all these qualities - Clement and Origen were ideals of its perfect spirit. The early Greek art, literature and life showed a cheerful and sunny disposition until overtaken by the morose Latin characteristic of gloom. There followed an adherence to legal form and severe subordination to authority. The Roman Empire extended over Europe by a universal code, and by subordination to a spiritual Cæsar, as absolute as he was in civil obedience. Thus the original simplicity of the Christian polity was entirely subverted; its pure democracy became a spiritual autocracy. The morose spirit of Tertullian as reinforced by the "dark shadow of Augustine," transformed it. Much of this legacy remains

Interesting article. Disagreed vehemently on 1st reading. 2nd reading almost in total agreement. Just read some of Mirko's other stuff & to me he makes a lot of sense.

As for the posters above, think many (both for & against the article) have misunderstood his message & changed it to suit their own particular hobby-horses.

Not sure, though, that we should so easily dismiss Mr Mufty as the 'idiosyncratic mad mufty'. Think he feels free to say these things because this reflects what many in his flock think (or have been brainwashed into thinking). Therefore crucial that we continue to publicly laugh at & lampoon future mad comments from mad mufties (& anyone else for that matter). I think Aussies are better at doing this than most other countries, to our advantage. Looking forward to Mirko's next one.

relda,

I agree with your first paragraph re: Abraham complete faith, devotion and surrender (Islam 101) to God.

I don't quite follow your syncretistic reasoning in the following two paragraphs. It feels more of a Gnostic approach than actual early Christianity.

We are on a different page.

The fall of human kind (original sin) is the foundational theme Christianity. The redeeming sacrifice of Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of all prophesies and laws.

The Abrahamic lesson is that God was never pleased with vegetal, animal and even human sacrifices - the only acceptable sacrifice will have to be from a sinless and perfectly holy being - His Son Jesus.

The only way to be reconciled and totally surrendered to God is through the perfect blood sacrifice offered by Jesus Himself on the cross. Nothing else would do.

Anyone who does not believe in this and does not accept Jesus' death and resurrection will never know God - let alone be saved.

Bringing us back to Islam and all other religious cults, they all believe that doing good deeds and sacrificing their sons might make them more acceptable to God. None of that works. Nothing will come close to the redeeming Lamb of God provided by God to save us - and NOT the other way around. Man cannot save himself.

God is interested in Relationship not Religion. He wants us to know Him intimately and not from a distance. The only way to know the Father is through His Son Jesus.