Country Gal,

You are of course quite right that Williamson’s song is not merely soppy, nostalgic jingoism. It pointedly criticizes the idea that “Australianness” simply means the ticking off of various cultural shibboleths: “is it a cockatoo?” No it ain’t.

I hope I’m not “reading between the lines” too much here, but Williamson is trying to distinguish between the stereotype and the soul, the image and the real, loyalty and Brand Loyalty. His song was, I think, a very apt choice for the public memorial of television celebrity, but I’m not sure that all of his “mourners” got it. I reckon it’s unfortunate that many of us know Williamson’s voice best as the singer of advertising jingles. He deserves better.

Is there anyone else out there who’s uncomfortable with the current fashion for the ANZAC legend? My own grandfather never told me the stories of his experiences fighting on the Somme: he died in a home for alcoholic derelicts when I was a year old. I remember my primary school headmaster, though. He was the one who banned marching and saluting and consigned the school drum kit to a locked and dusty shelter shed. He always managed to find a way to be absent on the government decreed school ANZAC day celebrations. He, too, fought in WWI. I didn’t understand then, but as an adult I’ve seen enough of post traumatic stress disorder (the real deal, not the pseudo diagnosis beloved of plaintiff lawyers) to get an inkling of what he was on about.

CG, I’m probably not as familiar with Aussie folk songs as you. Do you know Eric Bogle’s “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda”?

No, I don't think a culture that defines itself in stereotypes and shibboleths is a strong or sustaining one. Nor is one which defines its own value in sporting scores and medals. This is my point. Such a culture is a sitting duck for manipulation by the purveyors of jingoistic symbols and those who dog whistle their own paranoid dreams. This is not, repeat not, my country.

Snout, Sure do know the words to "and the band played waltzing matilda". Sung it for my music badge as a brownie guide many years ago (yup, I'm that old fashioned I'm afraid). My husband plays it regularly. Right up there with Redgums "I was only 19" (in response to Vietnam. Their both about humanising and de-glorifying war. They both however add to and round out a sense of Australianism - our attitude in the face of futility, and the impact that these events have had on our national psyche. After reading all the posts on this article, I think we can come to some conclusion. It is nigh impossible to put a finger on what it means to be Australian. We do have an attitude that it different to much of the world (including other english-speaking countries). All parts of our history, both the good and the bad, have helped formed what we are today. That's why I believe that its crucial for migrants to be schooled in what Australian history is, again both the good and the bad. Teach the lessons that we have learnt ourselves.

Snout why don't you and your cultural cringe migrate? Talk about looking down your nose at a culture. (Not that you seem to have much of a grasp of it.) Is that why they call you Snout?

ANZAC DAY dear Snout is not a celebration of WAR. It's a day of reflection and Commemoration. A day of "mateship".

LEST WE FORGET dear Snout... do you know what that means? It doesn't mean "Gee we had a great time at war, lets do it again!"

The Ode...

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow,
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

I've written a piece in the General section on OUR culture... maybe you could learn something.

T800, I think what you describe as “cultural cringe” is what I would describe as a yearning to find the depth and soul of my culture. You may get this, or you may not. Without that depth, all you are left with are the surface myths and catchphrases and symbols, as hollow as a sponge cake, and as Williamson says, as easily sold out.

What you see as sneering or dismissal is, I think, nothing of the kind. What distresses me is that for many Australians any call to look critically at who we are, where we’ve come from and where we’re going is dismissed through exclusion: “why don’t you migrate?” or (with poorly recognized irony) “why don’t you go back to where you came from?”. It’s a brittle and immature sense of self that can’t withstand that examination, and poorer for it. Hence Cronulla, the bashing of minorities, the vague but pervasive fear of being swamped.

I brought up the ANZAC myth making because it seems to me that there is an obvious reason for its recent resurgence over the past few years: the last of the old diggers have died, and there is no one left to put a brake on the jingoistic chest thumping. When Australia Came of Age. National Pride. Forging an Identity.

No one left to say, hang on it wasn’t about that, I was there.

Like many of the old ANZACs, my old primary school headmaster’s revulsion toward chauvinistic nationalism and militarism was not simply because of his own personal distress about his war experiences: he understood that inculcating children with those values makes them sitting ducks for the politicians and the warmongers and the fearmongers, just as his generation had been. And he was angry, fiercely angry, about that.

It’s possible, T800, that I choose to honour the memory of the ANZACs (including my own grandfather I never met) in a different way to you. There are many ways of doing so, some of them less comfortable to the ego than others. Don’t be afraid of that.

Snout , you can not reinvent something Australia is not, there have been 10 of thousands of The Marxoid/ Hedgellian Brain Injured who have tried over and over again to destroy Australia, (The Western Civilizations for that matter).
Australia’s dose of the Brain Injured Psych hit us about 35 years ago when lying Looters Egos and Useless Idiots became fashionable, and ruled the roust.
Only because they believe in nothing and are Existentialist in their interpretation of Ontology. Pathological liars of evil intent if you like. You obviously did not read the link I supplied to you. It quite plainly explains the chronology of events.

You continually invoke the Cronalla Event, only using your Marxoid/ Hedgellian Theory of Solipsism, so you lost me completely as it is not point discussing any topic with anyone who has predicated their assumptions upon total fallacies and false Hood.

It is much like terrorist laws, if the Brain Injured had listened to Factual arguments proposed in the first instance ; the early inception to De Australian'ise and demoralize the nation never would have happened and the damage would not be as extensive as what they now have created . . That’s the intention Snout ; that’s what they achieved, as well as Make hundreds of Apartheid states with in States. Or as some in other Lands call it , we are "OCCUPIED Territories" .
Like I said ; Nihilisms work is never done.
Did you forget the Redfern Riots and did you forget the Aboriginal and Somali Asylum seekers Riots in WA. Amazing what a Marxoid/ Hedgellian Brain Injury can do ; Very destructive.
How convenient.

All-

I did, in fact, read Felis’s catty but erudite article: I just failed to find the relevance to what I am trying to say. While I was vaguely aware of the debates around postmodernism and the other various -isms amongst humanities academics while I was at university I was too busy studying Krebs cycles, cruciate ligaments and cranial nerves to really take much notice. I’m kind of glad I never seriously tried to get stuck into Foucault and Derrida. They seem to have caused the end of Western Civilization (except for its last outpost in Australia), and I wouldn’t want to have been associated with that. Please appreciate, though, that my understanding of the brain injured might be different from yours because of our educational differences. I am curious, though: who the heck is/was “Hedgell”?

I am sad that you have read my ramblings as nihilist or arising out of the excesses of 20th century French existentialism. My thinking (I thought) was pretty old fashioned, basic Enlightenment and Judeo-Christian traditions of reason and justice. My point was that a sustaining sense of identity can only come about from an honest self appraisal, not from the adoption of superficial trappings or symbols, and that this process is sometimes difficult and painful. More psychological than philosophical, I agree, but then I’ve always been more interested in people than theories of people. You seem to have read my diatribes above as a defence of dogmatic multiculturalism or moral or cultural relativism (or maybe some other –ism). I am sorry if I came across that way, but it was certainly not my intent.

Country Gal

I can’t get the image of the little girl in the Brownie uniform singing “And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda” out of my head. It’s a tough song, a very adult song: I know it best from the version by Irish punk-folk band the Pogues. They had a great song about the immigrant experience: http://www.pogues.com/Releases/Lyrics/LPs/IfIShould/Thousands.html

I might see you guys around on T800’s culture and multiculture thread. Cheers, ciao, auf wiedersehen and ila l-liqa!