Kish has put this so much better than I did, I went over the top and I apologise for any real offence.
But it is the sheer hypocrisy that we get pushed down our throats about how MORAL Islam is when everyday somewhere in the world, Islamists are killing,killing,killing, even their own co religionists.
And the sheer barbarity of some Islamic practices are horrifying. Yet we still get ,'how moral Islam is'

"Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities,but the influence of the religion paralyses the social developement of those who follow it, no stronger retrograde force exists in the world."

That also say it.
Winston Churchill in a speech in 1899.

(Part 1 of four parts):

Kish:

I feel hurt to have hurt your feelings. Please accept my most sincere apologies, and I did not mean to say, to the least, that “aussie” culture is a s**t culture. I request you to kindly read through my previous posts on this thread where I have tried to explain my position.

R0bert:

Thank you for your advice! I appreciate any constructive criticism. Good that how things have turned out though – it has served as a lesson for me as to how to communicate thoughts more effectively.

As a matter of fact, I was trying to discuss what values Islam and Australia held in common, and what aspects of the two were mutually exclusive. My first half of the essay discusses about the common values both Australia and Islam promotes. In the following sections, I was trying to focus on the mutually exclusive aspects of the two. I couldn’t possibly mention about sports, for Islam does not discourage the spirit of sports. I couldn’t bring the topics of female genital mutilation, forced marriage, or honour killing, for Islam endorses none of these. Mohammed, the last prophet of Islam, was fiercely opposed to forced marriages. I couldn’t bring up the topic of misogyny, for the contextual reading of the Koran (as opposed to a literalistic reading) reveals a profoundly liberating ethos as regards women’s rights and status. So, the only way in which I could possibly draw a contrast between Islamic principles and *some* social practices rampant in the Australian society was what I mentioned in my article.

I understand I should have structured my words in a different and more meaningful way. Perhaps, I should have made it clear in the concluding section that I am perfectly happy to be an Aussie Mossie. There arises no question of overriding loyalty, for the Australian constitution does not coerce me to attend pubs during the weekends or go on a date with my neighbour’s hubby.

(Part 2 of four parts):

Mercurius:

Thanks for your posts! Responding to your query, to the best of my understanding, I would certainly agree with the Pakistani Muslim you met in Malaysia.

You see, the Sharia Law is not a single ‘law’ to be found in any book; rather it is a concept which has been manifested in a variety of different ways and contexts. The core elements of the Sharia Law during the early dynamic phase of Islam constituted an interlocking of the positive law (i.e. God’s Law) and natural law (i.e. the exercise of our inherent cognitive capacity, namely reasoning). Perhaps you may like to browse through another essay of mine that slightly touches on the topic of Sharia (http://members.optusnet.com.au/nayeefa/HumanRights).

I am not an expert on Sharia Law, however. I am still studying and plan to gain some knowledge on this subject by 2009, God willing. Before that, I would hesitate to discuss about Sharia, for I try not to discuss topics without gaining at least a minimum amount of knowledge on the subject matter.


Obozo:

Thank you for your advice. While you may happily read Ms Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who lied on her Dutch asylum application, please don’t forget to add Lamartine or Bosworth Smith to your library: "If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad?” Lamartine, Histoire De La Turquie, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
Bosworth Smith, Mohammad and Mohammadanism, London, 1874, p. 92.

BOAZ_David:

(Part 3 of four parts):

BOAZ_David:

Would you mind if I made a guess? You have a “Koran Combat Kit” at home, don’t you? Guess what, I was given a “Bible Combat Kit”, too, long time ago. I don’t use the kit at all for fear that I might quote things totally out of context and annoy my Christian brethren. Perhaps, the “Bible Combat Kit” may as well carry heaps of misinformation, who knows. I wouldn’t dare discussing about the Bible without having to read them through from A to Z.

Just some food for thought for you: What would you think of a text that dedicates a whole chapter (titled Mary, chapter no. 19) attesting to the purity of virgin Mary and the miraculous nature of the birth of Jesus (peace be upon them)? The Koran has unequivocally raised the status of blessed Mary and set her as a role model, “an example and a sign for all humankind”. Wouldn’t you be surprised that the only woman to be specifically named in the Koran is Mary and *not* any of Mohammed’s wives? You may like to browse through the site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jondel/Virgin_Mary_in_Islam

(Last part of four parts):

Boaz_David (contd...):

Are you aware of the fact that the Koran attests to the true prophethood of Biblical prophets (almost all of whom, incidentally, were polygamous anyway)? What would you think of such a text then? That it has come from satan? Or God? Whatever you may think of Islam, take a moment to ponder over what I mentioned, please. Would you mind if I recommended a couple of books for you to read?

“The Message of the Quran” (A translation, with explanatory notes, authored by Muhammad Asad), and “Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Source” by Martin Lings (perhaps you’ll have a better idea of how many wives Mohammed had and how many underage women Mohammed married).

Anyway, if you still insist on using the “Koran Combat Kit”, then, this thread shouldn’t be used to discuss and prove the infallibility of the Koran or the prophethood of Mohammed. I have your email address here on this thread, jjjdrmot@yahoo.com.au isn’t it. I will email you as soon as my “Bible Combat Guru” arrives from Nigeria and invite you both for dinner – I am sure he’ll love to have a chat with you. How does that sound? Meanwhile, you are most welcome to attend the following show:
http://www.allahmademefunny.com/calendar.html

To *all* commentators:

Thank you very much for taking the time to participate in the discussion. I’d love to respond to each of you, but unfortunately I’m limited with time and space on OLO. Besides, Ramadan is knocking at the door and I’ll have to start making preparations for this. So, I am sorry to say that this would be my last post on this thread.

Peace be with you!

Hi Nayeefa,

your reaction to pope's comments? hope he is a hitler to you. iran's prez is 'buddha' for you. am I right?

To say that the somali born muslim woman is a liar shows your mentality. she was not only mutilated and suffered, but she is facing death from moderate & non-moderate muslims. The fact that you show no sympathy to her speaks volumes.

Theo Gough was her friend. He was brutally murdered for doing a film on Oppression of women in Islam. Before he did that movie, he did blasphemous articles on christianity. Many got offended but none threatened him or did violence on him. But, as he did that movie on islam, he was brutally murdered by a devout muslim.

Do you like it?