Another thing mickjo,

I couldn't help but laugh when you said 'we enjoy life' you obviously don't enjoy life, you spend your time on internet forums saying how much you dislike 'dem ragheads', you are obviously a miserable hate filled indivdual.

I much prefer people like Nayeefa and Irfran in my country than the likes of you.

A fair enough response, Irfan. Your profile shows you as 'Aussie' as anyone and with a bit of flavour.

Nayeefa you seem genuine, but you are hopelessly lost in naive arguments you have been indoctrinated into believing.

Drug addiction? More than a third of Irans rural male population is addicted to opium and hashish smoking is probably more rampant in Middle Eastern cultures than it is here. Most of the world's heroin comes from Afghangistan, heck, Hezbollah make methamphetamine and heroin in the Bekaa valley. The Koran may prohibit alcohol, but not marijuana or opium (I am aware there are fatwas to the contrary).
There are far more people dying on the roads of Turkey, Iran and Indonesia than Australia. eg. Turkey's accident rates are 3-6 times above that of the EU. Why? Because Muslims believe that they are in Allah's hands, so he will save them from a crash, inshallah, or cause them to die, but it is out of their hands - hence they drive wrecklessly. In fact some silly Islamic organisation in Turkey even attempted to out a pamphlet last year saying that driving is in Allah's hands, dont worry about learning the rules.
There is little correlation between pornography and rape. The highest incidence of rape is in African countries, South Africa being the worst, not in the West, where porn is most freely available. There is far more rape in Pakistan and India than there is in Australia (although that is increasing as the Muslim and African populations increase). It is a cultural issue, and is closely correlated with poverty and lack of education. The antidote are capitalism and democracy, which would raise the standard of living. Of course cultural Westernisation also helps. An interesting issue is that of multiple wives in Islam. I am sure you have heard that wealthy Muslim men from the Gulf states go on holidays to places like India where they marry young girls for a few days to have sex with. Then they divorce and go home to their other wives - all perfectly legal under Sharia. Far more conducive to rape is the niqab and the mysoginist culture of Saudi Arabia. Men, until they are married, are

completely sex starved and get aroused at the mere sight of an arm or an ankle.

Now, how about the fact that the Koran instructs men to beat their wives? How about the fact that Muhammad personally stoned at least 2 people to death for adultery? Clearly a person who holds Muhammad to be perfect and the Koran to be the perfect word of Allah must think these things are ok.(the stoning verse may be abrogated, but the command holds, with several Hadiths to back it) But they are incompatible with Australian culture. Many other examples can be sited. Therefore I do not see how a person who thinks that Muhammad is perfect and the Koran is the unaltered word of God can be compatible with Australian culture.

I can pretty much turn your statement about Australian culture on its head and say Islamic culture is a culture of drug addiction, reckless road fatalities and rape. The instructions of Islam simply do not optimally correlate with human nature. Far from it. Western culture is far from perfect, but capitalism and democracy are far more effective forces for good in the world than Islamism, as can be seen from the most basic objective observation. You may not see yourself as an Islamist, but a blind adherence to Islamic dogma constitutes complicity in that idealogical movement. Currently, although less than 20% of Australia's Muslims can be accused of pursueing an obviously Islamist agenda, more than half are complicit in the movement. Lately Muslim voices of reason are finally emerging and this has been encouraging.

Nayeefa, Islam is undergoing a Reformation. Australian Muslims are some of the most well integrated Muslims in the West and thus have a unique opportunity to spearhead this Reformation. Look outside the dogma you have been tought, objectively. Perhaps you already have. Sure Mossies can be Aussies. But only when they let go the notions that Muhammad was the most perfect human being, that the Koran is perfect uncorrupted instruction from God and that Islam is the one true religion and by extension the perfect political system.

" Personally, I do consider myself as an Australian, an insider, that is. In the past, I had made crtical remarks about customs practiced in Bangladesh where I was born and bred, as I always believed that self-criticism comes first. Naturally, I don’t think any differently when it comes to Australia. "

Dear Nayeefa, Do consider yourself as a muslim woman/girl and make critical remarks about customs/evils practised in Islam, started by Mohammed and spread in all islamic countrries. As you always believed that self-criticism comes first, Naturally, you shouldn't think any different when it comes to Islam. Hope you got my message.

As you love self-criticism, Your role-models should be:

1. Ayaan Hirsi Ali [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayan_Hirsi_Ali]

Hirsi Ali is very critical of the position of women in patriarchal Islamic societies and the punishments demanded by Islamic scholars for homosexuality and adultery

She criticized Muhammad's moral stature. In January 2003 she told the Dutch paper Trouw, "Muhammad is, seen by our Western standards, a pervert". She referred particularly to the marriage between Muhammad, who was 52 years old, and Aisha, who was nine years old.

She answers:

Do you think it strange that there is a Saddam Hussein? Muhammad is his example. Muhammad is an example for all Muslim men. Do you think it strange that so many Muslim men are violent?


Female genital mutilation, girls dying in child birth because they are too young. The rise of radical Islam is an important part of this. I feel I have the moral obligation to discuss the source. I think if I think you are enriching the debate if you question it, you are not the enemy of Islam. We can look elsewhere using reason to discover answer to these problems, and we do not have to abolish religion. But we must do it by finding a balance

She says : I do not seek to offend religious sentiment, but I will not submit to tyranny. Demanding that people who do not accept Muhammad’s teachings should refrain from drawing him is not a request for respect but a demand for submission

To Nayeefa, Irfan, & co.,

Popovich states this crucial point worthy of your reply.

"Therefore I do not see how a person who thinks that Muhammad is perfect and the Koran is the unaltered word of God can be compatible with Australian culture."

Our politicians are trying to nail this Islamic malaise with the recent tick a box entry visa to Australia.

It’s a good start BUT Islam cannot and will not change to conform to our fundamental Australian values – except maybe to learn the English language.

1. Democracy (not theocracy)
2. Gender equality
3. Freedom of speech
4. Freedom of religion
5. Monogamy
6. Freedom of marriage (Inter-religion)
7. Freedom of expression (dress)
8. Respect for the authorities
9. Respect of the legal system
10. Separation of church and state

As long as Islamic values contradict and oppose our basic Australian ideals, (it) has no part in our society. Respect must be based on merit not birth rights, or by force.

To allow such a political religious system in our midst is playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun.

The legitimacy of Islam as a permissible religion must be scrutinised openly. It is not too late (yet) to reverse the damage that is being done due to our gentle approach of this particular group of migrants.

To attach an Aussie tag to this brand of belief does not take the sting out of its social and political destructive potential of our free country.

The so called “moderate” Muslems should decide once and for all their allegiance to their Islamic Umma or to the host society they live in.

To borrow the words of G.W. Bush after the September 11th Islamic act of terror on the US soil: “Are you with us or with the terrorists?”

I say: are you an Aussie or a Mossie? You can’t be both.