Mercurious,

I may have overestimated your judgement and intellect of the facts of life now that I realise you are still young and hopeful.

You missed my point again - the fact that those chicks are Australised does not mean they are free like we understand freedom. Just ask one of them what would happen if they go out with a non-muslem. And what would their family think if they decide to marry one of "them"?

Islam is a religion of oppression and submission (to a false god). Muslems are sincerely following their religion to their own peril and to the detriment of those around them.

Tolerence is gimmick in Islam.

Carl,

I and my wife have lived some 50 years in Arabic speaking Islamic dominated countries. So it is fair to state that I know muslems.

Speaking from first hand experience I have seen the social and economic decline in all the places were a mosque exists. The danger goes beyond what you can imagine from a synthecised casual observation of the news or current events.

Being an Agnostic or Athiest does not alter the historical facts that Islam is a territorial grasper and a freedom squasher.

Noted query from Irfan, earlier posting, as to IR laws.
Well, yes, Irfan.
IR laws are the internal "mainstream" (in that they are repression directed at the "Aussie" mainstream) manifestation (like laws directed at the unemployed), of the same mentality that rejoices with a smirk the undermining of rational law; as per FOI.
This mentality is arguably the same one that celebrates the misery of Lebanon,Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, fears "others", ignores tragedies like Darfour and Congo, subjects asylum seekers to grief beyond proportion to any tresspass they may have inadvertantly committed, detests the environment and sets up neo lib eco rationalist programs to only exploit humanity globally- improvements for local people being only accidental and peripheral to profit.
The IR laws are manifestations of a dark and repressive mentality that is the dark side of European culture; a sort of atavistic yearning to return to a medeival serfdom-based lifestyle where all issues can mercifully be sorted at the end of a club by the powerful, free of constraints.
Which is not to say Islamic states might not be infected by the same paranoia.
But Westerners dare NOT claim moral superiority to ANYONE,let alone EVERYONE.
We are only the same as the people of the Dark Ages. We simply do not "see" what we live in, the same as peasants covered in fleas and living in crap are habituated to what we "civilised" people, from our privileged, "enlightened" vantage point recognise as "filth".
But really it is just an airbrush job.
What was once external dirt now reveals itself only in the covert and cryptic manifestations of neo con "policy", thousands of miles from Wall street or Washington or Canberra.
That is, a child's or old woman's corpse at the bottom of a rubble-heap in Gaza or Falluja.

Carl, perhaps a little bit off topic, but you claim to be an "agnostic" and I was wondering if you could please help me to understand exactly what that is. Excuse my ignorance, but I've had agnostic explained to me on several occasions and still can't quite get it right. I'm not "having a go" at you, simply asking a question.

Personally, it is hard to stop wondering at hypocrisy exercised in Australia wherever.

Speaking of “Australian Islam” is laughing at females smoking from under hijabs, fool-around in traditional clothes with their males on Williamstown beach near barracks, recalls drinking while gambling “Middle Eastern appearance” studs, and read sometimes of Arab gays simply enjoying possibilities an Australian (and even Israeli) way allows.

As it was already here rightfully to my understanding mentioned, Islam is as much Aussie as any non-Catholicism is, and factual tolerance is being based on ignoring any own orthodox prescriptions where speaking of atheism seen somehow being a very common denominator in multi-nation societies is a bad tone, which is a next example of hypocrisy itself.

One of the most dishonest concepts ever perpetrated by people is this belief in the "existence of the one and only omnipotent, omniscient" King Teddy, creator of the universe and the morally perfect shaper and ruler of everything. Like how could it be possible for a morally perfect Teddy to seek this sacharrine adoration from his creations, seek and be persuaded by their prayers (five times a day), but become petulant and a displeased Teddy if "he" does not recieve this flattery? LOL

Be it Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Hinduism, how can anything supposedly and deliberately created by a morally perfect being, be so imperfect and condone, command, or cause immoral acts? Just seems that this supposed happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality. Without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, we have the chilling fact that this belief is heavily biased to accept a role for the irrational.

e.g.
We mostly all understand that Islam's early successes produced great mathematicians, scientists, scholars, physicians and astronomers etc. But were these "achievements generated by the requirement of the religious practices and rituals of Islam"? Half way on, it is an understanding that new interpreters of Islam appeared and that we see a teaching that the acquisition of knowledge by Muslims meant only the study of Islamic theology where the study of science, medicine etc. was discouraged. Does this suggest some intellectual regression? ..... Does this help to explain how Muslims missed the Industrial Revolution, were seen to be weak people and were carved up by England and France?

Nayeefa, "To be 'Mossie' or 'Aussie' - that's the question!" is NOT the question.

Wildcat, in my understanding an agnostic is someone who realises that they don't know everything.

We've not seen enough evidence to convince us of the existance of a god (or gods) but realise that it's possible that one or more do exist and have not made themselves known to mankind in a meaningfull manner.

It may also mean that we've had a look at the more well known ideas of god and realised that they don't stack up.

Hope that helps.

R0bert