You are completely correct wre. But, whilst they play that game, I'm more than happy to oblige.

And ena, congratulations on your marriage. I have one too. But you're ahead of me by about 3 years, and to paraphrase your words - some of you girls will be astonished to learn that a chick could live with a wicked, nasty, patriarchal sexist like me for so long - she claims to rather like me, even after all this time, bless her little parts.

And BTW - dentists? I don't even know the name of MY dentist. Trivia like that just isn't worth concerning one's self about. Only a woman would worry about rubbish like that - but I do know the name of my wheel-aligner and that's a very much more important matter.

One day the message will get across. Some things are women's business and some things are men's business. That's just one small insignificant point that shows that men and women are different and will never be equal. And they don't have to be. Everybody is unequal, different and individual. We are all beautifully unique - but some of us are more beautifully unique than some others. FIGJAM.

Have you ever noticed that lot of feminists have a servere inferiority complex.They are so aggressive and very defensive about their fundamentalist turf,much like our fundi Muslims who defend the supression of women in the name of religion.

Why do so many of these fundi feminists go out of their way to look butch and ugly?Are they trying to deny basic human urges to be liked and accepted by their sexual peers?In trying to be different by rejecting conventional modes of behaviour,they are merely conforming to their own insular biased view of the world,that has not withstood the test of survival for their species.

The extreme feminists are a bitter,sad and lonely lot,too blinded by narrow ideals to appreciate what they've got,since like many males in our society also,have lost the discipline,manners and humility of our past generations.

Feminists like Muslims are too easily baited,since deep down they have serious doubts about the validity of their arguments and cling to the dogma of the "oppressed" to justify aggression.

Perhaps they need to invent "The Feminazi God" that cannot be questioned or derided and then they could appeal to the anti-religious vilification legislation to stop us analysising them.

And I guess you are not being remotely abusive or aggressive in your post Arjay?
Ever heard of the pot calling the kettle black?
I'm a feminist and as such, I am far too civilised and sensible to call you names, but may I suggest you remove the mote from your own eye before criticising anyone elses?

Radical feminists - such as Andrea Dworkin, for example - do the rest of us a bad name with their wild statements. But to some extent, you NEED people going off the deep end and taking an argument to the extreme to be able to find a good point where most people are happy.

And truly, surely even the most fervent anti-feminism people here would not wish away the ability of their wives/ sisters/ daughters/ etc to vote and own property and enter higher education and the professions and generally be respected as full people?

Surely the distaste generally found around here for the second-class citizen status that women have in many parts of Africa and the Middle East is based on a recognition that allowing equal legal and social status for women is a fairer system and one that on balance is much better for men and women both?

I think it is, and I am glad to have been born and grown up in an era where my life options are limited by my tastes and skills, not by my sex.

Hey Ladies!

Want equality? Take up scuba diving. I regularly go diving and I've found the dive boat to be a mini utopia of gender equality and mutual respect. Why is this? It's probably got something to do with the fact that safe diving is about personal responsibility and teamwork. Not being competitive helps too but everyone gets along and no one blames the other for their weaknesses. Diving science is hard science and no one questions it because it works and all want it to progress for the benefit of all.

I've also noticed that most diver ladies have boyfriends and husbands.

I know women in the dog and horse showing world were the exact opposite is true, little responisibility is taken, histrionics and tantrums reign supreme. Few boyfriends too. A potential boyfriend will come on the scene only to disappear weeks later and they all say the same thing to her, 'its not you it's me'. The typical line for breaking up with losers.

I've known feminists, my mother was one, regrets it now. I also knew Pearlie Brown in the late 70s early 80s. Big aussie feminist from that time. Used our house for storing her propaganda from her feminist bookshop. I read it, nasty stuff.

Laurie;

"And truly, surely even the most fervent anti-feminism people here would not wish away the ability of their wives/ sisters/ daughters/ etc to vote and own property and enter higher education and the professions and generally be respected as full people?"

I have yet to see anti-feminist's support your above assertion.

Such statements are emotive manipulation of the boogeyman feminism type. Designed to introduce 'red-herrings' into the debate.

It is interesting that when men start trying to raise genuine concerns about feminism, arguements about 'loosing the right to vote', 'education' etc, for women start being used.

If you have bothered to reading the links I have added and the books I have referred too. You will see that the claims you make do not exist. There may be a very small number radicals somewhere who may play with such ideas.

Feminism built it's house of cards on alot of emotional rethoric and enormous amount of male bashing