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The Forum > Article Comments > Creating our own history > Comments

Creating our own history : Comments

By Rachel Hills, published 27/7/2006

Flag waving may be mawkish, but Australia can learn from US patriotism.

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Leigh says:

"America has handled immigration much better than we have"
Then when challenged on this statement says:
"We do better only because of geography" ...leigh,which is it?

In response to my challenging Leigh about (her?)actual experience or knowledge of life in America and the Middle East in which i accurately suggest (she?) has little, Leigh lamely retorts"Have you heard of reading, current affairs etc?".Yes i have Leigh,and its because of having read about history and current affairs and having visited/lived in America and a number of Middle Eastern countries many times over the last 30 years that i am able to see clearly that you have no real understanding of what you are pontificating about.

Leigh then gives further evidence of (her?) ignorance and lack of awareness by saying:
"Not much comprehension in your reading, Doom!"...Leigh,my reading of you was spot on n'est ce pas? and to Carl:
"Agreeing with Doom says it all about you." Actually Leigh agreeing with me says nothing whatsoever about Carl except that he disagrees with you.
Leigh then demonstrates (her?)character further with the comment: "Australians are too busy loving other people’s countries and, in doing so, are encouraging foreigners and immigrants to feel contempt for Australians, as well as their country."Leigh,are you saying that showing love to foreigners and understanding and tolerating their differences causes them to feel contempt for us? Tell me then,what resulting reaction would you expect from foreigners if you showed them contempt,disdain and discrimination? Would they respect you then?Would they appreciate and wish to be part of your "shared dreams and values"? I suspect not.

"National pride is a dirty thing in Australia." Leigh,national pride is only a dirty thing when represented by people with inhumane,ignorant,fearful,racially and religiously discriminatory attitudes such as yours.
Posted by DOOM, Friday, 28 July 2006 2:03:58 PM
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Leigh you are a liar - a proven liar. You have little ethics in your posting behaviour.
Leigh asks: “What proves me to be a ‘malicious liar’? I’m obviously not speaking for anyone else but myself .”
And here I am not speaking for anyone but Rancitas. You are a malicious liar. The lie was calculated to wound and assassinate Rancitas’ character. You are trying to reduce his cred among the OLO community.
Leigh you stated: “Noticed that … and Rancitas are still on illegal substances.” This proves you a malicious lie. That is your undoing.
Like the rest of your thinking it is based on a close-minded approach. You make big of not reading others posts but then go on to attack ideas that you admit that you haven’t read. Assumption-based “logic” ,and huge dose of nastiness, with no evidence to back it up. Weak as water Leigh.
I have also proven you a hypocrite. You go on about how moral and right you are and how you never slag off at other people yet OLO is strewn with your nastiness.
It is a proven direct lie. You are a liar Leigh without credibility.
Given tone and content of your posts I’d say it is a malicious lie – intent to wound..
Moreover, It has nothing to with my post.
Are you trying to tell me that you are joking? You’d have to be dead serious wouldn’t you? A big brave Leigh wouldn’t be afraid to speak their mind? Not in regard to a fibble little pencil-thin Ranc.
If Rancitas post is so weak ,why not address the information? My strength is my water tight arguments? You tremble at the thought of serious debate. Or are you telling me that telling malicious lies is serious? Ends justifies the means is your motto hey Leigh.
Why attack the person? It is character assassination. You’re up to level three of the right- wingers rules of engagement. The information that hard to counter Leigh?
The moderators on OLO really like you Leigh. You must be prettier than me.
Posted by rancitas, Friday, 28 July 2006 2:21:45 PM
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Prouder Than You
(Author come Aussies who wrote it?)

IF YOU fancy that your people came of better stock than mine,
If you hint of higher breeding by a word or by a sign,
If you’re proud because of fortune or the clever things you do—
Then I’ll play no second fiddle: I’m a prouder man than you!
If you think that your profession has the more gentility,
And that you are condescending to be seen along with me;
If you notice that I’m shabby while your clothes are spruce and new—
You have only got to hint it: I’m a prouder man than you!

If you have a swell companion when you see me on the street,
And you think that I’m too common for your toney friend to meet,
So that I, in passing closely, fail to come within your view—
Then be blind to me for ever: I’m a prouder man than you!

If your character be blameless, if your outward past be clean,
While ’tis known my antecedents are not what they should have been,
Do not risk contamination, save your name whate’er you do—
‘Birds o’ feather fly together’: I’m a prouder bird than you!

Keep your patronage for others! Gold and station cannot hide
Friendship that can laugh at fortune, friendship that can conquer pride!
Offer this as to an equal—let me see that you are true,
And my wall of pride is shattered: I am not so proud as you.


McKeller's "MY Country". Mates when I learnt this at school it was as if she could read my heart? This country runs through my veins.
I tells ya', if an immigrant chick and fella whose been here only a few generations feel this way, I can't even imagine how the Indigenous must feel. It must be burnt so much deeper into their hearts and souls.

"All you who have not loved her,
You will not understand-
Though Earth holds many splendours,
Wherever I may die,
I know to what brown country,
My homing thoughts will fly."
Posted by rancitas, Saturday, 29 July 2006 5:32:34 AM
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I went to school in the US, and I know that you cannot compare our two cultures in terms of how we see ourselves, how we relate to Government, how we see the responsibility our government means, how we see individual liberties and how we see our flag.

The flag in the US is a religious icon that represents all this as a dream. It represents modern government which shaped most modern democracies in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Their dream was a new world, and there was a desire not to make the same mistakes as Europe. Their free thinking flourished new and enlightened ways of innovation: unthought of in Europe. They found their own dignity in this freedom. The Bill of rights guaranteed it. Their flag was the religious icon proving it. Their war of independence resonates "patriotism", affirming the validity of their unique modernism.

As of the 1996 Australia act, Australia became our own sovereign nation under Paul Keating. This meant that we don't actually have our own flag at all. The Union Jack in sovereign postition contradticts our sovereignty making our flag a foreign flag. The official ensign on the top left corner of the flag shows the dominion that you are sovereign to.

Not that this matters. Why have a spiritual icon with no spirit of meaning?

I agree with Malcolm Frazer that before we talk of any republic or flag waving, the premise of Australia must be as a free country based in a guaranteed Bill of Rights. Waving flags for the sake of nationalism itself can incite violence as it only means nationalism and nothing else.

We still don't have one a basis for a flag that captures the spirit of Australia. No wonder we have less to celebrate.

Never-the-less, the actual flag and the republican issues are secondary to our guarantees of freedom. This is what generates our unique Australian freedom and will inspire our dignity in time.
Posted by saintfletcher, Sunday, 30 July 2006 1:52:23 AM
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Thank you for the article

I love Australia!
Posted by kalweb, Sunday, 30 July 2006 5:22:00 AM
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"The flag in the US is a religious icon that represents all this as a dream. It represents modern government which shaped most modern democracies in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries"

Sigh... I am glad I went to school in England.
Posted by Steve Madden, Sunday, 30 July 2006 9:55:05 AM
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