Dear Irf
in the interests of good debate, I appreciate your input regarding the concept of Taqiyya. I'll refrain from using that term in regard to non Shia in future.

I will rephrase as follows:

They are using a 'minimalist' approach to attempt to hide their real intentions, based on their founding charter.

They mention "long term cease fire for many years".. this is a clear avoidance of changing their basic goal of destroying/removing Israel from "Muslim Lands" in the technical sense of that term.

So, the alleged 'double standard' of Israel, simply does not apply.
They are simply doing what they feel they have to do to survive.

Perhaps they have read the same history as I have, and Lebanon is a classic. The civil war did not begin in 1975, it began in around 1860 as far as I can see, and was as much provoked by the BRITISH and SYRIAN and TURKS as anyone else. The events, massacres and genocides of those years (just a grandfather distance in time) would not be forgotten by anyone.

At that time, for reasons only known to themselves the British backed the genocidal DRUZE (Who, aided by the Shia, Turks and Sunni's -massacred the Christians)

Have the people in the area changed ? Are their still massacres, genocides ? damn right there are..

1976 Damour, Christian town of 25,000'in the way' of the PLO.. massacre occurred with brutality equalling that of the Nazi SS.

1982 Shabra and Shatila PLO camps. Palestinians Massacred by nominal Christians (maybe remembering Damour ?) The PLO was 'the enemy' in every sense of the word.

Given the lamentable history of outside powers either 'interfering' to promote their own interests, or.. toothless 'Peace keeping forces' who are always subject to those same interests, I consider the Israelies are just doing the best they can in the light of a very messed up world and region and looking after ....surprise surprise..their own interests.

Pointing at 'them' today and calling them the 'bad guy' will only ever evoke a response from me of "but remember.....such and such"

Irfan,

You really are a nasty piece of work, aren't you. I must be a funny old Nazi, siding with Israel. I am not, of course, a Nazi, and calling me one further reveals you true character. You keep bad mouthing people who dare to criticise Islam in a pathetic attempt to keep our minds off their foul Islamist deeds. As the saying goes, not all warriors are combatants.

Unlike you, I will not use any of the derogatory names that could be applied to you. Suffice to say that I hold you in contempt. Your childish name calling will not silence me.

Ant,

You are being just too silly - apart from sucking up to Yusuf who will turn on you too soon enough. I was in the same place as you were during your imagined "disgraceful period in Australia's history'. I totally approve of the detention of illegal entrants, and make no apology for that. I am to the right of John Howard, and you probably would hate to meet me, as you say, or anybody else who doesn't agree with your views. However, you would find me quite an amiable person who is not frightened, like you, of people with whom he disagrees.

I have been called a Nazi, fascist, racist, homophobe and all sorts of things by the likes of Yusuf and others who use terms of abuse to put people off. It doesn't work, and the name calling says more about them than it does about me.

Incidentally, while I approve of detention of illegals, I would really like to see them all sent back before their feet touch our soil. Have a fit about that!

"Hezbollah continues to boast of lobbing over 2200 rockets into Israel to target civilians. These terrorists are using human shields in Lebanon to raise the death toll and make Israel appear to be the heartless aggressor.

Rockets are being fired from outside homes, and the families taken into the tunnels to insure maximum civilian casualties. They want to insure that Israel loses the public opinion battle, and the media is more than willing to assist.

Hezbollah’s representative Hossein Safiadeen’s defiant statement came during a conference in Tehran attended by representatives from HAMAS, and ambassadors from Lebanon and Syria. “We are going to make Israel not safe for Israelis. There will be no place they are safe. You will see a new Middle East in the way of Hezbollah and Islam, not in the way of Rice and Israel.” Hezbollah, represented by the Lebanese government, rejected the peace proposal Rice placed on the table.

Safiadeen is adamantly opposed to any efforts to arrange a truce between Israel and Lebanon, even though there are some Arab states, including Egypt and Saudi Arabia that are pressuring Syria to end support for Hezbollah. Both Syria and Iran strongly support Hezbollah with funds and arms.

Syria has hinted that they might talk, but made the return of the Golan Heights one of the talking points. Israel is not likely to give up another area that would allow a base for further missile attacks.

Safiadeen is convinced that the people in Israel will pack up and leave the area if Hezbollah will simply increase their rocket and suicide-bombing attacks. According to him, “The people who came to Israel, (they) moved there to live, not to die. If we continue to attack, they will leave. This war will be remembered as the beginning of the end for Israel."

They do not know the Jewish people. The Mayor of Naharya has fought in three other wars. He warned that Jews, Christians, anyone not Muslim was in the terrorists’ aim."

Leigh, I think Ifran and I have disagreed in the past, so what? We are probably bound too as Ifran has in the past I understand had associations with the Liberal Party, I tend to take a Social Democrat view to the world.

I guess I don't need to say any more about your post as you have already said it.

I wonder what would happen if the Lebanese armed forces had thousands of tanks, 200 nuclear missiles, plus $32.000.000 donated to them everyday, by the Jewish controlled White House, Israel would not have a imigration policy that allows Jews who have no genetic link with the Holy Land to settle on land stolen from Palestinians. I feel sorry for the Jews they are on the road to extinction, they have been brainwashed to believe God promised them the land of Israel . this is the greatest scam of all time , hundreds of millions of people have died most of them Jews, there is a way to prove they are not lying, they should ask their God to come down to visit them, tell the world they are truthful, this will not happen because God is the God of Love. if I stole my neighbours car then said God told me, to take the car who would believe me, so why do we believe the lies being told.
in the mean time they are planning World War Three , the destruction of the Holy Mosque in Jerusalem will ensure a nuclear punch up, everyone will be throwing punches, you have to question the sanity of people who plan such acts . many on this site blame Muslims for being religious fanatics, the war against Lebonon is part of the plan to demolish the Mosque,
650 French Jews have just arrived in Israel how many of them have a genetic link with that land, how many will build a home on land that was stolen from a Palestinian, why cant we have a land where Arab and Jew live together as brothers no fences, no claims of ownership on false historical fiction,

Many thanks to Loewenstein for again almost singlehandedly decrypting the mass of Goebellsian propaganda proliferated throughout the media as "coverage" of Israel and the US's latest acts of schoolyard thuggery throughout the captive Middle-East.
To the likes of; Olmert, Rice, Murdoch, Bush, Rubenstein, Lapkin, Downer and your accolytes like Two-bob and Leigh, etc.
It may be that you evil forces attempt to crush the legitimate aspirations of the majority of people of the region, as Franco and Hitler did against the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, but it will hopefuly be at the cost of your rotten souls.
You nauseate me with your lies, insensitivity and brutality.
I and many like me, are only driven further toward unqualified sympathy and pity for the masses of innocent people you collectively torment and oppress, and I pray daily that justice is one day done.