Martin,
thanks, I might still give that CS Lewis book a try after I‘ve read the pile of books still waiting to be read;) It might be fun and interesting to see what Lewis has to say.

I agree that divorce can be disasterous, but staying in a marriage when one is unhappy with her/his partner is not very healthy. Some people feel very trapped and sad in their marriage. In some families, children can suffer more when their parents are always fighting than they would if the parents got a divorce and got on with their lives. So divorce is in some cases the better option IMHO. I'm grateful it is possible for people who need it.

Yes, good question where reality comes from and what it really means. Perhaps there are different realities and different places in where it originates, who knows?
If alcoholics think that reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol, then perhaps the religious think that reality is an illusion caused by lack of faith. LOL.

BOSK

“While in your view homosexuals are morally disordered & treating them like human beings is an example of western degeneracy. Not prejudiced bigotry at all is it?”

As has been pointed out by others; “love the sinner, not the sin.” I would be happy to be enlightened to discover any other organisation or agency that does more to relieve the suffering of HIV/AIDS patients from the gay community than those of the Church. But we are such prejudiced, uncaring & narrow minded bigots…

For further analysis http://catholiccitizens.org/press/contentview.asp?c=34972 and
http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/jhitchcock_enslavement_july06.asp

‘We should teach acceptance and respect, not tolerance, of those who are different from us wherever appropriate.’ (as if … see http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_13537.shtml for some mighty fine PC Pro-gay duplicity)

For a laugh…

Tokyo (AsiaNews) http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=1555 – More than 40 per cent of Japanese kids think that the sun revolves around the earth… 30 per cent did not know in which direction the sun set, a proportion that rose to 73 per cent for city kids.

Celevia

"Things were always a mess."

But shouldn't they be getting better?

Even with abortion legalised, some women still die, but, legal or not, babies die everytime.

"The church was against contraception too- who in their right mind these days wants supersised families?"

As a father of six, I would suggest perhaps me & my non-Catholic wife would find your negative 'self-centred opinion' about homelife a case of things being a bigger mess. Don't worry, they will only provide labour & taxes for large Catholic families in the future and work to keep out Shari'a law perhaps?

"Many people and little kids have died because of religious wars."

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatchooooooooooooo! All the (bull) dust off this chestnut caused me to sneeze. How many died in WWI cf. how many have died in religious wars in the last 2 millenia?

# The 20th Century war with the most military fatalities (battlefield deaths only) was World War II (1939-45). 15,843,000 primarily men lost their lives.

# There have been almost 30 million military fatalities resulting from 20th-century conflicts, as well as innumerable civilians who were injured and killed.

#randomly selected from http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/war.html#humantoll

Religious wars are generally combat for territory & resources. The current mid-east problems can be painted as religious, but, ultimately,shoving a nation into land occupied by another nation and then arming both to the teeth is more about commerce than sovereignty. 1 gun + 1 gun = 1 war (and lots of profits!)

When the Shari'a State of Ausbekistan is declared, will there be battles about property or about ideas and ways of life?

If you are not having children, then your (non-existant) votes wont count. Assimilation by the majority will see western nations either convert many to Christ,or see Islam demographically & democratically take over. (Secularists won't survive as they do not reproduce...)

I hope you will not have to familiarise yourself with terms like 'dimmitude' and 'kafir'

PBUH Please bury u' head! (or for the ladies, is that burqa u' head?)

Reality check.
AH not only a homophobe but you sound like a racist as well!
This topic of ‘the language used in churches’ is getting a good run-around!
You must have been brainwashed not only by the church but also by that anti-abortionist PM- (was it Danna Vale?), who claimed that Australia is going to be a muslim country if people (she talks about white Australians I suppose) keep having abortions.
It surprises me that she hasn’t gone so far as suggesting that abortion should only be legalised for muslims- tsk.
Anyway, why is Christianity a better religion than the moslim religion?
Can’t you just accept that there are people who believe in different Gods and that there are people who don’t believe in any God at all?
I think that Kipp had good advice in his short and lovely post: be happy!

Truly, how can one expect that everybody should have the same religion, same ideas, when there is no proof at all that one God is more true than another.?

C’me on, RC, everybody knows that a much higher percentage of women die when they have backyard abortions than when they have proper abortions at a clinic. And anyway, women die giving birth as well, so perhaps that equals it up. You’re probably going to find a link that proofs I’m wrong, that’s OK because I’m too lazy to look for links.
Would child abuse increase if abortion was illegal?

It’s nice for you and your wife that you have six children, RC, and I mean that (I hope you share the work load)- but people have the right to choose the amount of kids they have, and six kid’s is not everybody’s thing. For me, two is plenty, even though I love children. Why is everybody who decides on having less than six children selfish?

Have to go now… to cook diner for my small family.

No Rob I didn't miss it, I know it only too well, why do think I inserted that qualification? I'm praying that my actions follow my beliefs and as far as I know you’re the better person in God's eyes. But I can only go by what you say in here. If I say the universe is square and you say triangular we must argue. We may argue for respectfully and for great mutual benefit but we must argue.

Jesus was obedient to God the Father unto death. His weren't the deeds of someone hiding behind anything. On the contrary he held nothing back and revealed that he and his Father were one, even though he knew it would cost him his life. Jesus tells us to pick up our cross and follow him, not enclose ourselves in selfishness. That billions have and will continue to follow his commands isn't as you say some kind of intellectual suicide, rather the opposite Jesus-Paul-Augustine-Aquinas-Erasmus-Pascal-Galileo-Newton-Spinoza-Kierkegaard-Newman-Faraday-Mendel-and today 4 out 10 professional scientists believe in God
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1034872,00.html and speaking for myself with a degree in science and one in humanities I'd disagree that I was hiding.

Jesus cut the most slack of anyone who made choices he'd rather they didn't make.

Celivia,

Not everyone starts at the same place on our journey. Earth only planet with life, humans only rational creatures, women alone give birth, hereditary intelligence, health, beauty, fortune of living in supportive family/society, God choosing Jews and a teenage Jewish girl to give birth to him etc etc. But those to whom much has been given much is expected. Jews as a priestly people have suffered greatly, a mother breast feeds, carries child to term and sacrifices for her child. So privilege equals responsibility. Same with Christians.

The closer you look at Christianity and Islam the more I think you'll see why one ought to consider Christianity superior and Islam – Qur'an is terrifyingly violent, hadiths provide a gruesome biography of Mohammed and the lived experience of Islam in the world has been - well it speaks for itself.

Yes Martin, I agree that the Koran is violent, but isn’t there violence, like murder, rape, incest, lust, sexism, prostitution, torture as well?

I have to admit though, that I am not familiar with the bible or the Koran- I have never read it in real detail, but just parts and passages, so I might be wrong and the bible might be all about love and be violence-free.

But my general, personal feeling was that both the Koran and the Bible are violent.

It is something that I would never read to young children though. We have M and R rated movies to protect our children but parents are happily reading all these violent stories from the Bible and Koran to their children.