Yabby.

Agree regarding overnight Ban. Has to done over the next four years. A Ban on over breeding in drought regions would help. Farmers really need to realise they do dont a right to create suffering. If ya cant manage em dont breed em! I am sticking up for farmers telling not all groups were protesting about people eating meat.
I dont! agree with you about feed lots.
Creek fed in place of feed lots. Thats the least we can be expected to supply to Animals we breed to eat.
You speak of feed lots as if they were ok. Surely Your not blind.
Do you know the difference betwen feed lots and creek fed?
Happy to assist with overseas investors to build more abattoirs.
However as you said live Exports are due to some changes made by the Government years ago.
We can educate about these issues.
I would gladly! build as many plants as needed Yabby if i had the funds myself.
I Try to get main stream people to support Free Range Farmers.
I Try to get farmers talking direct to overseas investors , preferably live Animal Importers.
Educate the public that THEIR money goes to the MLA and The cattle mens ASS.
They have a right to insist SOME of these funds goes towards promoting co joint ventures with overseas live importers.
Its not about me getting my breasts in a tangle so much as looking for men with balls to help.
Neither is it up to me to do the lot on my own for Australia.
I should have thought some of the farmers could ban together and open a few plants too.
Or does Elders have everybody other them me running scared. Also Yabby as you said you were not actually in this industry but exporting Sea foods. There is a difference. You said for eg, Halal Accreditations were nothing and easy to obtain. Thats simply not correct. Farmer dont know who to approach without too much red tape to get accreditations and export licences. We do. You may be interested in this>
www.envirosource.com.au

http://www.envirosource.com.au/
This Should work sorry.

Yabby , happy to talk to [serious] people about opening more plants.
Your theory about improved conditions on ships is stuff you must have read off a web pages. Its clear to me you have not exported sheep although I appreciate your interest.
How do you think we can control other countries?
We cant. Even if the ship trip was not cruel> Which it IS. How do you think we can tell others how to slaughter.? They dont even respect peoples lives. There is no bloody reason for sending our jobs off shore. Fact is apart for some minerals Vailes got stuff all going OUT of Australia. Take A look at the National Party.
The problem IS most these dudes are NOT farmers but corp, companies that know stuff all about farming or animals and care much less.
eg If a goat farmer get twenty bucks a goat and the Muslim pays seven two WHOS getting ripped off?
The GOAT going alive number one! The Farmer number two and the muslims. Simply makes good sense for the farmer and the Muslim buying the goat to do business direct,cutting out the middle man. The ones who make their money out of misery and stealing jobs from Australia.
If you know farmers intersted in FREE assistance for Halal accreditations , looking for the sercurity of becoming exporters, I would strongly sugest you point them to this web page.
www.halakindmeats.com
You will find I am no mug and I dont say things I dont mean.
If WA farmers want more money its the way to go. If they want people to turn a blind eye they are out of luck.
Do not tell me live exports is OK Yabby I have a room FULL of footage that makes even the farmers I have shown cry.
The Extream People have got THAT right. Have you SEEN them ripping the eyes out alive/ Have you. We have. It Is NORMAL over there!
So lets build some bloody plants.
http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Wendy

I have bookmarked your links for when I have more time.

PS - A note of warning it is against OLO rules to have more than a single identity on OLO - they find out from your IP address.

Yabby

I think you have a valid point that an immediate end to live trade will cause more problems than it solves, however, I don't think that is what Wendy is on about. She is trying to set up alternatives to live export so that it can be phased out over time. Please give her a chance. Think about racehorses that travel overseas - their accommodation is 20 star in comparison to live meat export and they still can suffer stress. Better that animals be slaughtered here where we have control in the methods used.

Cheers

Wendy, Celivia, Pericles, Yabby and anyone else who is interested, I have started a thread regarding live export under 'General' at:

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=18

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Scout, thanks, I'll have a look at this thread!

Wendy, I love that envirosource thing! Hopefully it will be available here soon.

The footage on the animalaustralia website of the treatment of animals before and during slaughter are soooo horrifying I had to stop watching it because I felt faintish and sick. They are MUCH worse than anything I’ve ever seen on TV and worse than I would be able to imagine!
Is AVA aware of this footage- I just can’t imagine vets having watched this and still don’t even discuss it!

Anyway, I just wrote to AVA and Mark Vaile (again)- I spoke of rallying since you said it makes ‘em nervous.

To church people I would like to say: If you find the members of your church compassionate, then suggest they show some compassion for All Creatures Great and Small. Perhaps your priest can lead the way and church goers can gather in front of Elders one Sunday to protest.
I almost wish Philo took part in this discussion- he knows lots of church people he could talk to about this. You can always sing: Mary had a Litte Lamb.

Yabby, I do agree with Scout here that Wendy IS suggesting good alternatives.
Yabby if you watch this footage you’d be horrified about the way animals are handled once they’ve reached their destination. I think that the animals who die during the transport are the lucky ones compared to the survivors. I just can’t get over it.
If you want to see the footage, here’s the site. If you have kids, make sure they’re not around when you watch this!
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/default2.asp?idL1=1269&idL2=1900&idL3=1905

Wendy, droughts are not yet predictable. Things might be fine
today, drought in two months.

Feedlots are here to stay, thats the reality. There is good and bad
about them. The whole Japanese beef market depends on them. About
1 million head of cattle in Aus are in feedlots IIRC.

IMHO Wendy, there are far worse things around then live sheep or
feedlots. Chickens in little cages all their life, yet 80% of
people don't care and buy the eggs. Cows in dairies never let outside all their lives, as in mega dairies. I am against any facilities where animals spend their whole lives in factory like
conditions. But two weeks on a boat, where animals gain weight,
is not an issue for me.

I don't get my info from websites. Cameron Morse is a smart guy,
independant. He is the editor of the Countryman. He hopped on a boat
to Jordan with a load of sheep and reported the whole procedure in
extreme detail to his readers, over a number of weeks. You should
write to him at the Countryman for a copy of his report.

Elders hardly play a role in the WA live export trade, thats perhaps
a Queensland issue.

Wendy, I have had a farm for around 30 years now and still do.
It runs a couple of thousand sheep, which is hobby farmer size these
days.

Wendy, there is a coop owned by farmers in WA, who slaughter
1 million sheep and lambs a year. Right now they are paying
about 15-20$ for mutton, the live sheep trade pays 60$.
If you have all these great markets, prepared to pay farmers a fair
price for mutton, they can buy from Wammco, already halal accredited, and Wammco can pass that back to its 1000 farmers.

You have no right to try and control other countries Wendy.
That would make you as arrogant as the Americans. MLA spends
quite some money each year on encouraging and cajouling others.
Trying to dictate to them is bad people skills, as George
Bush has found out.