It is said that those who set up and run the Nazi concentration camps did so with matter-of-fact business like efficiency.

This article is in the same spirit: very sober yet completely ignoring the whole context of the matter.

John. I would have thought an enquiry [open] into livecourpe would have been right on the money.

Perhaps it is you who does not understand the connection between the two.

If you read most of the comments from these so called worried and concerned cits about hick you will find only the morally bankrupt comments.

All this lashing out at others show indeed only mean spirit.

As they can not speak nicely to their fellow Australian citizens i will take it that they are either all in support of the extream muslims or just trouble makers with little else to complain about.
Lets give them another ten years and if we stay on track I think they might have something to complain about.
I am sure the same lot are happy the leader was realed yesterday.
Fair dinkim what a ungrateful lot.
I am certainly glad my grandparents are not here to see how some Australians turned out. David hicks is only one of them who got caught!

lest we forget.

Wendy seems more concerned about the fate of a ship full of sheep than a fellow citizen who has been illegally detained and apparently tortured for the last 4 years and then uses the terms "morally bankrupt" and "mean spirit" for those who would simply like to know the truth and see justice done.

The words "pot", kettle" and "black" suddenly come to mind.

Under the circumstances I also find the reference to sheep rather apt.

Oh come on Wendy.

First you have the gall to say "If you read most of the comments from these so called worried and concerned cits about hick you will find only the morally bankrupt comments." As one of those "worried and concerned cits" I object to your suggestion of moral bankruptcy, particularly without any justification to back it up. I do not think (apparently unlike you) that I have a monopoly on morality. Hell, my morality is probably no model for anybody. But I am as capable as anyone else of making moral judgment when the need arises. And in Hicks' case my moral judgment comes down to a quite simple feeling that it is not right for a person to be locked up, psychologically tortured, denied human contact for hundreds of days at a time, denied access to family, without charge, without process, and without support from the Australian government.

At the moment a paedophile discovered in Thailand with an 8 year old boy under each arm and two more ordered for the morning, would receive more consular assistance and support than this poor deluded cretin Hicks. Are you comfortable with that Wendy? Are you really?

You then say "All this lashing out at others show indeed only mean spirit." In fact, until this post (I admit it, I am angry now) you are the only person on this thread who has shown a mean spirit. Everyone else, even those who I disagree with, has been putting forward sensible, considered opinions in a considered way. Your posts have been Victorian-era jingoism laced with obscenities.

You will get the final word in this tete a tete because I won't be posting in this thread again. Go on, give it your best shot.

At least you managed to spell "lest we forget" properly this time.

Neil James :

After reading your highly emotive and unsubstantiated harangue of Guantamo Bay resident David Hicks, and hysterical lampooing of the Law Council and other Civil Libertarian organisation's, your credibility as an Independent Guardian on Defence Matters is abysmal.ZILCH - in my books.

Predictability, you have shown your true colours by toeing the US and Howard's acquiescence to the legitimacy of that infamous prison on Cuban soil, Guantamo. Yes, ' bird poo ' for what's it is worth. Like Abu Ghraib, Camp Nama, Nahru and Christmas Island these off shore bastions of prison torture, human right abuses, sadistic interrogations are conveniently located on Foreign soil, to AVOID prying media, Amnesty International, and ad hoc Christian Libertarian groups.

Whatever became of the Westminster Rule of Law: ' innocence until proven guilty ?' We have only the US Military's word DH was captured as a Taliban combatant. Another furphy : trail by heresay evidence. Quote: " according to his family, Hicks served etc ". Pathetic. Simplistic.Juvenile.

As a fellow Australian, has he NO rights ? The tirade continues : " does not mean Hicks can or should be released ", monotonously followed by " until the conflict in Afghanistan ends " suggests emphatically DH should rot in prison, and the key thrown away. Accordingly, he's already be found guilty, condemned and incarcerated for LIFE - on what grounds pray ?

DH's 'cause calebre' resonates on ALL Australian's. Should one unfortunately be arrested Overseas on spurious charges, DONT expect DFA to rescue you. Bureaucrat's like James will have you buried if it contradicts the ' party ' line.

De rigueur, the US Supreme Court have not ruled either way on the legitimacy of Guantamo or the jurisdiction of the US to try DH. Second guessing, as some would want, wont earn cheapie brownie-points by any stretch of the imagination.

Whilst wry G Bush pushes the buttons, it's unlikely a decision on legality will vindicate the Administration, this term of Office.

The argument that War is a ' civilised' activity and practiced by ' civilised Countries' has me doubling over in laughter !

God forbid that the ONA, Duntroon, and War College officially produce such puerile nonsense. No wonder the ADF are held in such low esteem. After the Kovco double whammy debacle. Brigadier Colsen's inebriated loss of a ' top secret' lap top in a Qantas VIP lounge. Billion's of dollar's worth of munitions that are useless and ' ticking-over-as-time-bombs 'in Government warehouses. Audit's that reveal whole scale losses and mismanagement of equipment and stores simply vanishing into thin air ? The litany reads like the foibles of Alice in Wonderland, except for it's gravity.

The War Crimes Commission was established soon after WWII, to convict enemy accused of wilful abuse of Human Rights, murder and lesser violations in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Even though Japan was not a signatory to the Protool, nevertheless their citizen's - military and civilian were summarily brought to justice and executed. Similarly, Terriorists, CIA, MI6, Taliban or Mossad agents who indulge in murder, will face Sovereign Nation's Court's of Law, irrespective of their allegiance to Mickey Mouse or Michael Jackson's Fan Club. One doesn't discriminate if one is 'registered' as the writer impugns.It's naive to suggest serial murderers or rapists have to 'define' themselves because of a nebulous place in History ? Precedent, demeaning,unrestricted warfare, and other childish euphemisms do not come into the equation.

From the time DH was arrested, interrogated, tortured and transported to several Foreign Countries before being chained like a feral animal in Guantamo, DFA have sanctimonously adopted a laissex-faire attitude simply because we cannot afford to offend the US.

Shamelessly, we view modern methodology on interrogation techniques as consistent with articles of War. Under this ambit, psyshedelic drugs, deprivation of sleep, hypnotic trance, electric shock treatment, familial threats, water-torture, finger/toe nail removal,suspension by thumbs/genitals, and devious mental exercises to weaken the metabolism, is condoned Universally.

Of course no one admits to the Rules of Engagement. We are conditioned to expect the Geneva will ensure explicit adherence, by all signatories to Protocols therein. Thgose ouside, needn't ask.

Cheers