Michael K,

Your comment “And Palestinians, that is the Arabs from Israel,” Is a mythology and one of the reasons why we have a living breathing problem.

- The country partitioned in 1948 was a country called Palestine (Not Israel).
- Israel have never been a country or a state…ever..Israelites they livede everywhere in the middle east including Medina and Mecca as merchants and business people. ‘they lived there’ does not mean they have the right for ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
- Israel to non-Israelis is a separatist movement of Jewish people wanting to have their own country / home to live in. I don’t have a problem and many Arabs Muslims have no problem except for your above statement: why would you want Palestinian arabs (Muslims or Christians) to live there and forget their identity? Just give them their land back and have a good life and let them enjoy theirs…Simple really..

Food for thoughts...

Continued: And again there is the same propaganda that really the Jews just wanted to live in peace and were happy to be Palestinians if they could just have a home in the land where some of their ancestors lived a few thousand years ago. The Italians could make the same claim on London and southern England. The fact is, the Jewish and Zionist plan was ALWAYS for a State, not peaceful co-existence with Palestinians as part of Palestine. It is not just hypocritical to say otherwise it is a lie and the Palestinians knew it. That is why they resisted it and why their allies came to their defence.
And as for the clergy coming into it, well, if he means the moderates on both sides, sure, but the fact is you could not single out clergy in this way and both sides have fanatics who have less capacity to reason and negotiate than the politicians.
The real issues are not between Jews and Muslims, nor between Muslim supporters of the Palestinians or Jewish supporters of the Israelis, they are between Palestinians and Israelis.
And those ‘real issues’ remain what they have always been: the violent and wrongful dispossession of the Palestinian people and their unjust and brutal treatment at the hands of Israel.
Settlement will only come when Israel gains a perspective which equates with reality: Israel was established illegally and immorally and while the world at large can accept its existence as a given that is only on original borders. Israel must also admit to the wrongs inherent in its foundation and make redress to those it dispossessed. It must apologise to the Palestinian people for its brutal occupation and pay compensation while working for a viable Palestinian State.
In the real world, this represents a true perspective of justice and human rights.

rhross is absolutely right. I would only add that, for Israel to be truly accepted by world public opinion, it must abandon the discriminatory and racist concept of a 'Jewish' state, rescind laws which enshrine discrimination between Jews and non-Jews (ie abandon its own form of apartheid) and implement the right of return of the Palestinian refugees of 1948-49 and 1967.

Reason, Strewth & rhross

Sorry I took so long to get back to this thread.

I appreciate your responses to my question.

My personal opinion is that although the state of Israel was created on controversial terms, none the less it is here. And casting blame is not going to solve anything.

Time for compromise, rather than coercion.

However someone has to make the first move. And the onus has to fall on Israel. It was created on spurious terms - as Strewth, Rhross and Fellow Human have made clear, Palestine was invaded Israel has the power to redress that.

As for the clergy being involved I agree with Rhross - the issue is about Palestinians and Israelis NOT Muslims and Jews. There are many Jewish people who do not hold with the Zionist POV. As someone with Jewish heritage, I have given this careful consideration, reconciliation will require compromise on the part of Israel. Israelis have the opportunity to create peace, however I fear they are more interested in power.

Scout: Re "Israelis being more interested in power", this is not something new. Nor did it begin in 1967, or even 1948. The idea of forming a state of any kind presupposes a desire for power. The idea of, push for, and creation of a Jewish state (and what I say here applies equally to a Christian or an Islamic state) presupposes the desire for and exercise of power for and by Jews. It is and cannot but be, by its very job description, inherently discriminatory against non-Jews. A bi-national Israel/Palestine representing all of its citizens, Jewish and non-Jewish, rather than some abstract entity known as 'the Jewish people' (think 'the Christian people' or 'the Muslim people' and you'll see just how absurd the idea is) is the only morally defensible and just solution to this problem, although a complete end to the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories would be an excellent start.

Hamas is shipping in arms by the Egyptian Sinai Desert to Gaza to arm the soldiers with Russian made Kalashnikov Automatic machine guns, and handguns for hand to hand combat. These weapons enter Gaza without any problem as the Egyptian security guards are turning a blind eye to the smugglers.


Abu Mazan is supposedly a partner for peace with Israel, but the truth is his al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade part of the Fatah terrorist group is still run by Abu Mazan, and he's bidding for illegal arms coming across the Egyptian border along with al Qaida and the Islamic Jihad.

The Prime Minister’s office will agree to divide Jerusalem, and evacuate most of the Jewish Settlements in Samaria and Judea. What he is talking about is 200,000+ Jews from their homes much like his hero Ariel Sharon did in Gaza. George W. Bush is applying pressure on Israel to do this. Olmert wants to continue with the Sharon plan and even go one step further, to divide Jerusalem.



Jordan’s King Hussein and Egypt’s President Mubarak are waking up to the fact that al Qaida and Hamas are a serious threat to their Countries. Just a few hours ago 20 Hamas Terrorists were arrested with hundreds of weapons and explosives in Jordan and have confessed of plans to terrorize the Jordanian people. With terrorist bombs killing so many in Dahav, Sharm and Taba Egypt has come to the conclusion that they face the came Islamic enemy as Israel faces. But still can’t bring themselves to join into the fight with Israel because of their strong belief in the Koran.


This Iranian President believes it's his calling from Allah to usher in the Moslem Messiah who will in turn conquer the world for Islam. He believes that's duty to acquire nuclear weapons to destroy the enemies of Islam.

Iran is using the criminal Palestinian gangs along with Egyptian, Sudanese and al Qaida Terrorist. All three are taking orders from the Iranian RG intelligence. Daily Sudanese infiltrators are caught coming into Israel by way of the Negev Desert