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The Forum > Article Comments > Backdown invites more demands > Comments

Backdown invites more demands : Comments

By Tony Kevin, published 19/4/2006

The more Canberra caves in to Jakarta's demands, the more we invite danger.

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Perseus,

Now I'm a big ememy of the Jakarta lobby and I agree 100% with the article. But Indonesia is not dysfunctional and it is not a Javanese empire. Have you ever been to places like Kupang and Manado both of which are predominantly non-Muslim and three hours flight away from Jakarta (that's a lot further away from Canberra than where you live)? In those places, they is very little sentiment for succession. In Manado, some members of the local legislature and student groups demanded independence because of a new law on national education that is seen to favour Muslims, but this demand was really just grandstanding to get their democratic point-of-view across. Also in Manado, almost all public servants including the high-ranking ones are native Minahasa Christian people - not Javanese. The Regional Autonomy Law (No. 22 of 1999) has gven the provinces and districts a lot of power and local people are free to lobby their local governments which they often do very actively.

Please don't confuse today's Indonesia with the Soeharto period. Indonesians are our friends. But when the government goes on about the refugee issue like they have recently, recognise it for what it is - just bluster that ought to be ignored. If our governmet can't realise that, then this is just more proof that it is still dominated by Dick Woolcott's mob that learnt their Indonesia skills in 1974.
Posted by rogindon, Thursday, 20 April 2006 2:01:47 PM
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Relations between Australia and Indonesia have reached a new low as members of the Indonesian government demand personal apologies from our PM and Foreign Minister for allowing our legal and international obligations to be upheld in the case of the West Papuan asylum seekers.
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To my way of thinking if we don’t want to see the kind of outcome foreseen by PERSEUS then we must start to advocate the development of a federal state in Indonesia with the ban on regionally based political movements being lifted as a good first step. Javanese hegemony has created an environment which can only lead to disaster if steps are not taken soon to rectify the situation endured by the regional peoples of our nearest neighbour.
It is a fact of real politic that Indonesia’s territorial integrity must be upheld; including West Papua, Ambon etc. despite the tenuous ethnic or historic validity of Indonesian claims. We simply do not want to see the disintegration of Indonesia on our doorstep.
Also, we cannot acquiesce to the demands of the Indonesian s to apologise for properly applying our laws with regard to asylum seekers. The implied threat to retreat from enforcing their people trafficking laws indicates quite clearly how far the Javanese elite has retreated from the obligations which international rules place upon them( if they ever really took them seriously).
Clearly, the only course they can pursue to stop the allegations and revelations of the sort of abuses mentioned above and an ongoing crisis with Australia over asylum seekers is to ensure that all their peoples have a real stake in the state and economy. We can help by encouraging federalist groups and democratic reform in Indonesia.
Some may say that I am suggesting that our system and society is better and that such notions are neo-colonialist. Well, I do think that our system is better and that the maintenance of the Javanese empire by their elites and TNI is leading the Indonesia down a path which will lead inevitably to fragmentation, or a state of permanent civil dispute and repression
Posted by colgradolf, Thursday, 20 April 2006 5:24:17 PM
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Colgradoff,

You obviously listen too much to the Dick Woolcott Jakarta lapdogs on the one hand and to some strange out-dated human rights discourse on the other. It's 2006, man - not 1974! Indonesia has laws on regional autonomy (Laws 22 and 25 of 1999). Its political system is theoretically more democratic than Australia. There have been three democratic full suffrage national elections held there since 2004 while we have only had one in that time. They also had about 10 times more voters in each of these elections that were for the most part largely free and fair - not like in the Soeharto period. I have visited every province in the country, including Papua.

West Papua and Aceh certainly have independence activist movements, but not the rest of Indonesia which is NOT REPEAT NOT a Javanese empire. I lived there for nine years and I should have some idea.

You have the right to demand that Indoneia comply with international human rights norms, but not the right to tell Indonesia to adopt a federal structure of government anymore than you can advise the UK or France on this. Indonesians negotiated a very difficult democractic revolution in 1998-2004. Suggest you read more from valid sources. Try www.thejakartapost.com.
Posted by rogindon, Thursday, 20 April 2006 6:03:55 PM
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Pride-before-Fall: "I think you should start using your brain before making comments, boy. Suggesting Australia to go to war with 250 million Indonesians is the most stupid thing I've read in this forum so far."

How so? Indonesian troops showed an abject absence of soldierly discipline in Timor, which showed in the high loss of civilian life and the number of rapes. Have things changed? Doubtful, and there's more to fighting an enemy than their troop numbers. Indonesian troops have never been tested in a real war (and who can forget how they folded when faced with a handful of determined Australian and Brituish troops during Konfrontasi?) and have shown their mettle only against primitive tribesmen, women and lightly armed insurgents.

Losses would be high- but I'd back Australia against Indonesia any day. Our airforce and navy would make it impossible to travel between islands in the archipeligo, within days, for a start. So all those thousands of Indonesian troops would be sitting on their backsides with nowhere to go.

Boaz- did the word "amok" not originally come from Malay, and is not an "English" word?
Posted by Viking, Thursday, 20 April 2006 6:05:46 PM
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Is it in Australia's interest to be surrounded by failed states? We already have The Solomons, East Timor, and Papua New Guinea. Why wouldn't an 'independent' West Papua be just as much of a mess?
The east Timor debacle was primarily driven by the catholic church and again the churches are stirring things in Papua but Indonesia is not going to let it's most easterly province go. While all the latte lefties convince each other what fine caring people they are real people will be suffering in real villages.
Posted by citizen, Thursday, 20 April 2006 6:46:49 PM
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Is E Timor a failed state? it hasn't been around long enough to be so termed. It has good potential.

PNG? Not really. The only one of your examples which rings true is Solomons, and how is that relevant to Papua? It could be argued that with Indonesia's human rights record, it is hardly a "successful" state, and moreover is a modern day colonial empire.

Interesting slant on things when the Church is blamed for supporting the legitimate aspirations of subjugated people, where are you people when Christian schoolgirls are beheaded by heroic Muslim warriors in that (to you) non-failed state, Indonesia?
Posted by Viking, Thursday, 20 April 2006 7:18:56 PM
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